An ongoing extinction

[Australian_Reef]

I think it’s important to remember 7 mths is still very early days and not to give up hope on the tank yet . You don’t need more rock in your display, if that’s how you like it, but you do need to make up for it elsewhere in the sump to get the filtration…Rock or other media. You likely have high nutrients and the green water is just keeping them down so the tests don’t show it. Something is very wrong there algae on rocks yes, in water volume to that degree is strange. Are you dosing anything?

Need that ICP test. I’d say metals.. but your inverts are fine, so prob not that. Definitely no iron getting in there?

I wouldn’t start changing antytginh quickly, just go bask to basics. Get the ICP, probably several. Dont add anymore corals until you know what’s going on.

How are the corals dying? Quick or slow? Always the same or different? If it’s happening in all your tanks then it’s obviously systemic… I’d say something in your top up/salt water at the source. Or temperature.

 

[Katze]

I think it’s important to remember 7 mths is still very early days and not to give up hope on the tank yet . You don’t need more rock in your display, if that’s how you like it, but you do need to make up for it elsewhere in the sump to get the filtration…Rock or other media. You likely have high nutrients and the green water is just keeping them down so the tests don’t show it. Something is very wrong there algae on rocks yes, in water volume to that degree is strange. Are you dosing anything?

Need that ICP test. I’d say metals.. but your inverts are fine, so prob not that. Definitely no iron getting in there?

I wouldn’t start changing antytginh quickly, just go bask to basics. Get the ICP, probably several. Dont add anymore corals until you know what’s going on.

How are the corals dying? Quick or slow? Always the same or different? If it’s happening in all your tanks then it’s obviously systemic… I’d say something in your top up/salt water at the source. Or temperature.

Yes I have biological filter media (Sorry I forgot to mention that)
As I mentioned I don't dose anything.
As for the corals' death rate I'd say that it is fairly quick, the favites got down to this state in a matter of week or so.

 

[Katze]

My hammers go limp like that with too much flow and too much light. Mine seem happiest just barely wiggling and at around 80 par. My hammers are my barometer. Everything in my tank is flow picky. When I break everything down for cleaning, I know I’m back in the right spot if the hammers are plumped up.

It’s not only about gph it’s also about dead spots and high spots. Maybe a short video with your lights at peak and flow running would help some of the old timers here try to narrow it down for you.
UV would get rid of your phyto bloom.
Your tank is sparsely populated. Are you feeding corals anything besides phyto?

Luckily there are no deadspots
Regarding lighting, I only have an hour of ramping up/down at max the par should be 100-150 around the corals
I'm feeding the fish but not the corals due to the phyto

 

[jkcoral]

I agree with another post, the lack of algae/sterile look to the rock and sand/substrate is odd. Given the parameters, I think it’s probably a lighting problem. Even if you have a decent lighting rig, the depth of the tank, how high the lights are above the water line, and stuff like that could mean your getting deceptively low light to the corals.

Also, I don’t know if this was just for taking photos, but it looked like a lot of the frags were up towards your glass in sterile substrate. I doubt there’s much light getting to those spots.

And a lot of softies need more flow than you might think. Gorgonians (I only have photosynthetic), for example, have a mucus coat that they shed every few days. They need flow to remove this mucus or they will perish. And in the same vein, even photosynthetic corals benefit from target feeding once or twice a week. You might add/adjust/whatever your wave makers to dial in optimal flow.

One last thing… make sure you have sufficient surface agitation/air exchange. Protein skimmers, among other things, are a great way to increase air exchange in your system.

 

[Australian_Reef]

Yes I have biological filter media (Sorry I forgot to mention that)
As I mentioned I don't dose anything.
As for the corals' death rate I'd say that it is fairly quick, the favites got down to this state in a matter of week or so.

What about the softies? The big thing is the softies as it’s hard to kill them that fast unless something big. I agree that there may be lack of light but still a week of low light isn’t going to kill a favites.

I get the argument from others of a sterile look with no algae, but the algae is there, it’s just in the water column as phyto and on the glass I think. The fact it’s in the water column is the strange thing. And you are having issue with multiple tanks? I know you said you did an ICP test before but I would do the same again. And if all corals die I’d cut the lights totally and keep testing, see what happens when the photo isn’t sustained. Is there anything in the environment around the tanks that could be the issue? And yes up the flow.

 

[Katze]

What about the softies? The big thing is the softies as it’s hard to kill them that fast unless something big. I agree that there may be lack of light but still a week of low light isn’t going to kill a favites.

I get the argument from others of a sterile look with no algae, but the algae is there, it’s just in the water column as phyto and on the glass I think. The fact it’s in the water column is the strange thing. And you are having issue with multiple tanks? I know you said you did an ICP test before but I would do the same again. And if all corals die I’d cut the lights totally and keep testing, see what happens when the photo isn’t sustained. Is there anything in the environment around the tanks that could be the issue? And yes up the flow.

Once I tried eliminating the phyto, I turned the lights off for 2-3 days and it immediately started to die off.
-The favites has been in the tank for 2 weeks (I found the receipt)
But the euphyllia for a week only

 

[NanoNana]

There’s a lot of activity here and a lot of suggestions.

My breakdown from reading through is test par, video the tank so flow can assessed with focus on the hammer as it’s going to show movement. Get the water column clean and test for heavy metals. 0 tds in the water is great but there could be a contaminant we are missing like bad salt especially since it’s system wide.

Zoas should be stretching for light if par is low. They are staying closed. Substrate looks pretty course but if flow is an issue there could be detritus or smaller pieces of sand sitting causing irritation as the are at the bottom of the tank.

UV for the bloom in the column.

 

[Australian_Reef]

There’s a lot of activity here and a lot of suggestions.

My breakdown from reading through is test par, video the tank so flow can assessed with focus on the hammer as it’s going to show movement. Get the water column clean and test for heavy metals. 0 tds in the water is great but there could be a contaminant we are missing like bad salt especially since it’s system wide.

Zoas should be stretching for light if par is low. They are staying closed. Substrate looks pretty course but if flow is an issue there could be detritus or smaller pieces of sand sitting causing irritation as the are at the bottom of the tank.

UV for the bloom in the column.

I agree.. something systemic. Some contaminant. Video always better than stills!

 

[fish farmer]

There’s a lot of activity here and a lot of suggestions.

My breakdown from reading through is test par, video the tank so flow can assessed with focus on the hammer as it’s going to show movement. Get the water column clean and test for heavy metals. 0 tds in the water is great but there could be a contaminant we are missing like bad salt especially since it’s system wide.

Zoas should be stretching for light if par is low. They are staying closed. Substrate looks pretty course but if flow is an issue there could be detritus or smaller pieces of sand sitting causing irritation as the are at the bottom of the tank.

UV for the bloom in the column.

I agree with the closed Zoas....if the lighting was insufficient they would be stretching for the light, same with the mushroom.

To the OP, do the corals look good and open up when you originally get them and put them in the tank? Or do they stay closed all the time and gradually die?

 

[Australian_Reef]

N

I agree with the closed Zoas....if the lighting was insufficient they would be stretching for the light, same with the mushroom.

To the OP, do the corals look good and open up when you originally get them and put them in the tank? Or do they stay closed all the time and gradually die?

Not just the single tank though it seems

 

[Katze]

I agree with the closed Zoas....if the lighting was insufficient they would be stretching for the light, same with the mushroom.

To the OP, do the corals look good and open up when you originally get them and put them in the tank? Or do they stay closed all the time and gradually die?

So, it's the following: 1st day no problem opens up as it should and is nice, stays the same for 3 days
and then they gradually die in a matter of week or two but mostly 1 week.

 

[Katze]

N

Not just the single tank though it seems

Let me clear this up,
The small tank always killed stony corals lps and sps too, but it keeps softies very well gorgonians aswell.

The large tank (which is the tank in question and was intended to save the rest of the LPS from the small tank) kept lps very well for the 1st 1-2 months then NH3 spike due to not cycling the tank well enough, obviously those lps died but thrived until the disaster, and after an actual well done cycle (finished 4-5 months ago) and then I tried my 2nd lps with this tank which is this favites that I bought 2 weeks ago.
The difference is that the large tank started to kill every type of coral.

I was at my lfs to rent the par meter but unfortunately it is currently being lent to someone.
They recommended to reduce light intensity until the instrument isn't available (which would be next week)

 

[shcrimps]

Was this a pure dry rock start and nothing introduced? Also looks like you need way more rock to me.

agreed the tank is huge with super minimal rock

 

[NanoNana]

Let me clear this up,
The small tank always killed stony corals lps and sps too, but it keeps softies very well gorgonians aswell.

The large tank (which is the tank in question and was intended to save the rest of the LPS from the small tank) kept lps very well for the 1st 1-2 months then NH3 spike due to not cycling the tank well enough, obviously those lps died but thrived until the disaster, and after an actual well done cycle (finished 4-5 months ago) and then I tried my 2nd lps with this tank which is this favites that I bought 2 weeks ago.
The difference is that the large tank started to kill every type of coral.

I was at my lfs to rent the par meter but unfortunately it is currently being lent to someone.
They recommended to reduce light intensity until the instrument isn't available (which would be next week)

Well next week it is. I don’t disagree with lowering lights until you have access to the par meter.

This is nana thinking out loud. Someone correct me where needed:
zoas should open during early phases of the lighting and hide when intensity ramps up when the lights are too intense but they should stretch if they are light starved. The other thing that will close them up tight is flow that is too high which is what I see when I look at the hammer.
You said softies are doing well in the other tank. Do you have zoas in your other tank or just leathers and gorgonians? My gorgo likes monster flow as do leathers so we are possibly back to flow.

If Zoas are healthy in the other tank, maybe move these close to the thriving zoas and see if they will open back up. The hammer should barely wiggle if it’s blowing like anthelia it’s too high.

 

[Katze]

Well next week it is. I don’t disagree with lowering lights until you have access to the par meter.

This is nana thinking out loud. Someone correct me where needed:
zoas should open during early phases of the lighting and hide when intensity ramps up when the lights are too intense but they should stretch if they are light starved. The other thing that will close them up tight is flow that is too high which is what I see when I look at the hammer.
You said softies are doing well in the other tank. Do you have zoas in your other tank or just leathers and gorgonians? My gorgo likes monster flow as do leathers so we are possibly back to flow.

If Zoas are healthy in the other tank, maybe move these close to the thriving zoas and see if they will open back up. The hammer should barely wiggle if it’s blowing like anthelia it’s too high.

In the other tank I have leathers, briareum, a very healthy gorgonian, I have no idea how zoas would do there.
For now I halved the intensity, if the hammer won't get better then I will move it to less flow.
+I agree on the zoa part you mentioned.

 

[Australian_Reef]

O

Let me clear this up,
The small tank always killed stony corals lps and sps too, but it keeps softies very well gorgonians aswell.

The large tank (which is the tank in question and was intended to save the rest of the LPS from the small tank) kept lps very well for the 1st 1-2 months then NH3 spike due to not cycling the tank well enough, obviously those lps died but thrived until the disaster, and after an actual well done cycle (finished 4-5 months ago) and then I tried my 2nd lps with this tank which is this favites that I bought 2 weeks ago.
The difference is that the large tank started to kill every type of coral.

I was at my lfs to rent the par meter but unfortunately it is currently being lent to someone.
They recommended to reduce light intensity until the instrument isn't available (which would be next week)

Ok then. Good luck

 

[Gumbies R Us]

In the other tank I have leathers, briareum, a very healthy gorgonian, I have no idea how zoas would do there.
For now I halved the intensity, if the hammer won't get better then I will move it to less flow.
+I agree on the zoa part you mentioned.

Best of luck to the hammer recovering!

 

[Katze]

Here is an update on this mess:
I halved the lights last week now one zoa frag seems to open up a tiny bit more and more.
I placed the hammer to lower flow, but that did not help.
Essentially nothing has changed.
Rhodactis and the discosoma still look shriveled, the other zoa is still very closed, the hammer and the favites too.
So... what now ?

 

[Australian_Reef]

What is the flow like again?

 

[Katze]

From right to left the flow should be weaker.
I tried fish food as an "indicator"

The hammer is on the left hand side of the tank, where the flow should be rather low.