Antennata Lion Dying?

amarr104

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Hi everyone,

I recently got a 1.5 inch dwarf fuzzy lion and a 2.5-3 inch antennata lion online. They arrived Tuesday. I put them in a 20 gallon quarantine tank together with no other tank inhabitants. The tank is cycled and water quality should not be an issue here because I took a good amount of media from my displays filtration when I set up this quarantine tank. The antennata has not eaten anything and I offered it both ghost shrimp and a couple different feeder minnows and he wanted nothing to do with it. Meanwhile, the fuzzy is doing great and ate both ghost shrimp and is even already eating frozen food from tongs. Although the antennata wasn’t eating it was still looking okay and acting normal but when I got home from work tonight I noticed he was breathing heavy while perched on a rock with white stringy poop hanging down from him consistent with intestinal worms. I immediately dosed with general cure but am worried something else is going on with him as well because underneath his mouth/jaw he has some significant redness that appears to be some kind of hemorrhage or something. Do you have any suggestions or advice? I don’t want him to die but am worried that it’s too late :( IMG_8443.jpeg IMG_8436.jpeg
 

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amarr104

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Hi everyone,

I recently got a 1.5 inch dwarf fuzzy lion and a 2.5-3 inch antennata lion online. They arrived Tuesday. I put them in a 20 gallon quarantine tank together with no other tank inhabitants. The tank is cycled and water quality should not be an issue here because I took a good amount of media from my displays filtration when I set up this quarantine tank. The antennata has not eaten anything and I offered it both ghost shrimp and a couple different feeder minnows and he wanted nothing to do with it. Meanwhile, the fuzzy is doing great and ate both ghost shrimp and is even already eating frozen food from tongs. Although the antennata wasn’t eating it was still looking okay and acting normal but when I got home from work tonight I noticed he was breathing heavy while perched on a rock with white stringy poop hanging down from him consistent with intestinal worms. I immediately dosed with general cure but am worried something else is going on with him as well because underneath his mouth/jaw he has some significant redness that appears to be some kind of hemorrhage or something. Do you have any suggestions or advice? I don’t want him to die but am worried that it’s too late :( IMG_8443.jpeg IMG_8436.jpeg
Hi everyone,

I recently got a 1.5 inch dwarf fuzzy lion and a 2.5-3 inch antennata lion online. They arrived Tuesday. I put them in a 20 gallon quarantine tank together with no other tank inhabitants. The tank is cycled and water quality should not be an issue here because I took a good amount of media from my displays filtration when I set up this quarantine tank. The antennata has not eaten anything and I offered it both ghost shrimp and a couple different feeder minnows and he wanted nothing to do with it. Meanwhile, the fuzzy is doing great and ate both ghost shrimp and is even already eating frozen food from tongs. Although the antennata wasn’t eating it was still looking okay and acting normal but when I got home from work tonight I noticed he was breathing heavy while perched on a rock with white stringy poop hanging down from him consistent with intestinal worms. I immediately dosed with general cure but am worried something else is going on with him as well because underneath his mouth/jaw he has some significant redness that appears to be some kind of hemorrhage or something. Do you have any suggestions or advice? I don’t want him to die but am worried that it’s too late :( IMG_8443.jpeg IMG_8436.jpeg
 
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amarr104

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I would like to add all the white particles is general cure. I took the pictures right after I put the general cure in so it was not fully dissolved. There was and still is no sign of ich or velvet on either lion so I don’t want the pictures to be misleading
 

lion king

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Ok definitely something new going on, 2nd lion I've seen in a week with an ulcer similar to that on the chin. General cure was the right move, it is important to dose to water volume and not tank size, and provide aeration. While a chin injury is usually not serious and many times come from a bag rub, this is more than that. It could have started from a bag rub but has now spread more than I have ever seen. While the bag rub in poor water conditions and a lacking diet can cause an infection, that infection would likely kill the lion before the lesion spread to the point of being through the jaw. I "suspect" that it is in combination with something parasitic, maybe hexamita. The treatment for that would be metronidazole, which is in gc. A wound like that is very susceptible to infection and absolute pristine water conditions must be maintained. I'm sorry but transferring media usually is never adequate, I would immediately do water testing, if there is ammonia present and you do not immediately remedy it, it will be too late. Dosing an antibiotic in a tank with porous material is almost always ineffective, if it is what I suspect, the metro should do the job in conjuction with pristine water conditions.

The heavy breathing is concerning, did it start before or after the dosing of gc. I see you have rock and such in the tank, did you calculate displacement before dosing. If the breathing started after you dosed, it could be an overdose of gc. I would calculate the amount of the od and do a water change to adjust. Make sure there is alot of surface water agitation and even adding an airstone.
 

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Hi everyone,

I recently got a 1.5 inch dwarf fuzzy lion and a 2.5-3 inch antennata lion online. They arrived Tuesday. I put them in a 20 gallon quarantine tank together with no other tank inhabitants. The tank is cycled and water quality should not be an issue here because I took a good amount of media from my displays filtration when I set up this quarantine tank. The antennata has not eaten anything and I offered it both ghost shrimp and a couple different feeder minnows and he wanted nothing to do with it. Meanwhile, the fuzzy is doing great and ate both ghost shrimp and is even already eating frozen food from tongs. Although the antennata wasn’t eating it was still looking okay and acting normal but when I got home from work tonight I noticed he was breathing heavy while perched on a rock with white stringy poop hanging down from him consistent with intestinal worms. I immediately dosed with general cure but am worried something else is going on with him as well because underneath his mouth/jaw he has some significant redness that appears to be some kind of hemorrhage or something. Do you have any suggestions or advice? I don’t want him to die but am worried that it’s too late :( IMG_8443.jpeg IMG_8436.jpeg


Yes - the lion is breathing too fast/hard. That is a sign of either gill disease, or a systemic (whole body) infection. Mucus feces are actually not a symptom of worms, but can be a sign of other issues.

It sounds like the fish were shipped to you? That can be stressful to fish, with high ammonia in the bags being the primary issue.

The General Cure will help with flukes, some internal worms, as well as internal protozoans (which can cause mucus feces).

Here is some text about mucus feces as a symptoms:

Excess mucus in fish feces:

This will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food. However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not “drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.


Jay
 
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amarr104

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Ok definitely something new going on, 2nd lion I've seen in a week with an ulcer similar to that on the chin. General cure was the right move, it is important to dose to water volume and not tank size, and provide aeration. While a chin injury is usually not serious and many times come from a bag rub, this is more than that. It could have started from a bag rub but has now spread more than I have ever seen. While the bag rub in poor water conditions and a lacking diet can cause an infection, that infection would likely kill the lion before the lesion spread to the point of being through the jaw. I "suspect" that it is in combination with something parasitic, maybe hexamita. The treatment for that would be metronidazole, which is in gc. A wound like that is very susceptible to infection and absolute pristine water conditions must be maintained. I'm sorry but transferring media usually is never adequate, I would immediately do water testing, if there is ammonia present and you do not immediately remedy it, it will be too late. Dosing an antibiotic in a tank with porous material is almost always ineffective, if it is what I suspect, the metro should do the job in conjuction with pristine water conditions.

The heavy breathing is concerning, did it start before or after the dosing of gc. I see you have rock and such in the tank, did you calculate displacement before dosing. If the breathing started after you dosed, it could be an overdose of gc. I would calculate the amount of the od and do a water change to adjust. Make sure there is alot of surface water agitation and even adding an airstone.
 

lion king

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Lets not make the stringy poo more complicated than it needs to be, this along with not eating, all you need to know is internal parasites and the treatment is general cure.
 
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amarr104

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The breathing was before the dose. I did not calculate the displacement because I was worried about estimating/not dosing enough GC but I will estimate the displacement and do an appropriate water change. I will say the fuzzy is acting completely normal with full coloration/normal breathing rate so I don’t think I OD’d.
 

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Hi everyone,

I recently got a 1.5 inch dwarf fuzzy lion and a 2.5-3 inch antennata lion online. They arrived Tuesday. I put them in a 20 gallon quarantine tank together with no other tank inhabitants. The tank is cycled and water quality should not be an issue here because I took a good amount of media from my displays filtration when I set up this quarantine tank. The antennata has not eaten anything and I offered it both ghost shrimp and a couple different feeder minnows and he wanted nothing to do with it. Meanwhile, the fuzzy is doing great and ate both ghost shrimp and is even already eating frozen food from tongs. Although the antennata wasn’t eating it was still looking okay and acting normal but when I got home from work tonight I noticed he was breathing heavy while perched on a rock with white stringy poop hanging down from him consistent with intestinal worms. I immediately dosed with general cure but am worried something else is going on with him as well because underneath his mouth/jaw he has some significant redness that appears to be some kind of hemorrhage or something. Do you have any suggestions or advice? I don’t want him to die but am worried that it’s too late :( IMG_8443.jpeg IMG_8436.jpeg
Fish unfortunately appears to be moribund and its hard to say what is going on with 3 second videos. Need at least 20-25 seconds. Im sure this is progressive and not immediate and how are other fish looking and breathing?
Immediate treatment with GC as mentioned by LionKing along with added oxygen via air stone is your best chance for recovery in a separate treatment tank
 

lion king

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The breathing was before the dose. I did not calculate the displacement because I was worried about estimating/not dosing enough GC but I will estimate the displacement and do an appropriate water change. I will say the fuzzy is acting completely normal with full coloration/normal breathing rate so I don’t think I OD’d.

It may be too late for the antennata, but let's hope for the best. A strong healthy fish will manage a small od but one that is already compromised sometimes even have a hard time managing a proper dose. Making sure ammonia is zero and aeration at this time is all you can do. Adjust with any water changes you deem necessary and let it ride. Gc can work very fast and within a day or two you'll know. Just an added note, it is not wise to feed minnows, they can bind in the gut and cause bloat, which usually causes death. I know it's about the acclimation but just to let you know, feeding minnows long term will have other health risk like a high amount of thiaminese and improper fats. If you want to offer live fish, offer guppies and/or properly sized mollies.
 
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amarr104

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It may be too late for the antennata, but let's hope for the best. A strong healthy fish will manage a small od but one that is already compromised sometimes even have a hard time managing a proper dose. Making sure ammonia is zero and aeration at this time is all you can do. Adjust with any water changes you deem necessary and let it ride. Gc can work very fast and within a day or two you'll know. Just an added note, it is not wise to feed minnows, they can bind in the gut and cause bloat, which usually causes death. I know it's about the acclimation but just to let you know, feeding minnows long term will have other health risk like a high amount of thiaminese and improper fats. If you want to offer live fish, offer guppies and/or properly sized mollies.
Okay thank you for all your advice!
 

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