Are we too hard on people asking if they can mix tangs

[SpartaReef]

My tank: 120g fat boy
My tangs: orange striped bristletooth, sailfin, lavender.

I also housed two dwarf angels before I sold one (flame angel and coral beauty).

I find that if every fish is potentially aggro then due to assured mutual destruction, they tend to keep a grudging peace.

 

[Faisal27]

Tangs have evolved to be aggressive in order to defend their territory and food source. This is why they don't always get on in a confined space, it's instinct. This makes mixing them the problem that it is. You either need to have enough space and food for them to be able to not see each other as major competition, or cram them in so aggression isn't restricted to one individual.
The trick to tangs is to create a hierarchy of dominance which is done by adding different sizes where their is less chance of the smaller fish challenging the alpha (at leat for temporary harmony). It works well with congeners but gets more tricky with the rest of the family.

I'm not a member of the tang police and tangs don't particularly interest me which makes it easy to say what I'm about to (if someone told me I could only have one wrasse though I'd be annoyed so do sympathise with people that love tangs), if you truly love tangs then why the fascination of adding so many. The best and seemingly happiest tangs I've seen have been in relatively lightly, large fish, stocked tanks. I've run tanks with a single specimen fish, normally a less common tang, and the fish have been super calm, bold and better coloured than those which were kept with multiple other species. For me I'd get more enjoyment out of a powder black tang in rude health than a pasty one bunged in with lots of other tangs.

I think the way information is presented has a lot to do with how hostile people perceive feedback on forums. The term tang police didn't come about because concerned reefers were being polite and nonjudgemental. Dealing in absolute statements also turns people off because it sounds limiting. My tank is ridiculously over stocked in terms of tangs but I have no aggression issues. This isn't common or something I'd pitch as easy or even viable. But after having personal success going against what conventional wisdom suggests, I think it's self defeating to start advice or information by telling someone what they can't do and then list the reasons why like it's impossible for it to happen otherwise.

If people want to overstock their tanks you can't stop them... but you can offer information to offer better alternatives.

thank you finally for your comments .. this thread (in my mind ) was supposed to be about successful stories about people who have kept tangs from the same family or different 1 tang or 5 tangs so we can start to see if there are ways for fellow members , reeefers , casuals , etc to successfully keep tangs in a variety of aquarium sizes .. we all agree that a tang in a 30 gallon won’t work but I’m was talking about 100 gallons and up with their success stories .. like I said I have a 500 gallon tank with 8 tangs so I didn’t need to start this thread in the first place cause I’m all set because my tank size helps ..if this thread can be about this topic then let’s do it but if it’s going to be about why( justifying ) we can’t keep tangs or that it’s either you did ur research ( mostly no tangs in a certain sized aquarium or these two tangs in a 1000 gallon tank wont work) then I ask the admin to close this thread ( because I actually don’t know how to or if I can ) ... this isn’t a shot at any of the members in this forum but I was hoping this wouldn’t Become another “either ur with us or against us thread ”

 

[Antics]

Well for personal success I have a 4x2 foot tank with 5 tangs.

6-7" Hippo
4" white tailed bristle tooth
5" Desjardini
5-6" Hawaiian Gold rim
4" Purple

And to top it off a 6" Magnificent foxface.

I am planning a tank upgrade for the near future and I have no aggression issues. My secret? I feed 7 times a day and do large water changes every week with an oversized skimmer.

 

[SpartaReef]

I feed my fish once a week and they're still fat

 

[Quah]

thank you finally for your comments .. this thread (in my mind ) was supposed to be about successful stories about people who have kept tangs from the same family or different 1 tang or 5 tangs so we can start to see if there are ways for fellow members , reeefers , casuals , etc to successfully keep tangs in a variety of aquarium sizes .. we all agree that a tang in a 30 gallon won’t work but I’m was talking about 100 gallons and up with their success stories .. like I said I have a 500 gallon tank with 8 tangs so I didn’t need to start this thread in the first place cause I’m all set because my tank size helps ..if this thread can be about this topic then let’s do it but if it’s going to be about why( justifying ) we can’t keep tangs or that it’s either you did ur research ( mostly no tangs in a certain sized aquarium or these two tangs in a 1000 gallon tank wont work) then I ask the admin to close this thread ( because I actually don’t know how to or if I can ) ... this isn’t a shot at any of the members in this forum but I was hoping this wouldn’t Become another “either ur with us or against us thread ”

@Faisal27 I'll throw in my 2 cents about what would make for successful multiple tangs. I think there are a few factors that contribute to success, Aggression, Body Shape, Food, Other fish, and LOS breaks.

Aggression: Choose your tangs based on how aggressive they are (while they all have personality, some are more aggressive than others). For Example, Sohals are just beasts and so are clown tangs, I wouldn't pair them because they're equally aggressive and get to be similar sizes and have similar body shapes. A tang with that aggressive personally would be best added last. In my tank, my Purple was the most aggressive and the Orange Shoulder was added as a fingerling. Once my OST became of size he usurped the purples dominance and they fought for a couple months but are generally peaceful. Get tangs that look different and you'll reduce aggression, also be aware some are more ornery than others.

Body Shape: If tangs don't look similar they're less likely to see others as competition for food/mates/territory for whatever reason I think this is an instinctual thing. Zebrasoma, Achilles Complex, Bristletooths, Nasos, etc. all look different enough and may increase your chances of cohabitation. Also, size plays a factor Adult Tangs seem to be more likely to be aggressive and territorial while juveniles tend to fall into the hierarchy better and also seem to adapt better to captivity overall.

Food: Feed a lot and this reduces one of the number one things tangs want to control - food. Use two veggie clips instead of one, its impossible for the dominant fish to guard both without a lower ranking tank mate getting their share.

Other Fish: Specifically, Rabbitfish - they get equal in size to most tangs, they compete for the same food as tangs, but their armaments (venomous spines) seem to deter aggression from just about everything and they'll stand their ground, which will distract the dominant fish. I imagine large angels with their cheek spines and attitude will have a similar effect in the aquarium hierarchy.

LOS Breaks: Aquascaping matters. If you have a wall of rock most all tangs are pushed to the front of the tank and forced to interact when they'd rather flee. If you use multiple islands in your aquascape or tunnels, any fish that's targeted for aggression can escape from its aggressor, they might make chase but they'll often give up after their target has escaped its aggressors LOS (think cichlids).

This is what I thought when I made plans to have multiple tangs in my aquarium. So if someone wants to try them I'd consider these factors. For smaller tanks like 100gallons I'd look at keeping Mimic Tangs, Bristletooths, and Convict tangs, maybe a smaller species of Zebrasoma(scopas).

 

[Antics]

Excuse the poor quality but here is a photo just so people can understand the size relationship between my fish. No damaged/nipped fins, no chasing, etc.

Stock list -

Magnificent Fox Face
Midas Blenny
Hippo Tang
Melanurus Wrasse
Borbonius Anthias
Whitetailed Bristletooth Tang
Desjardini Tang
Hawaiian Goldrimmed Tang
Purple Tang

added in that order with the newest addition being in the tank for a little over 3 months. All of my fish go through TTM/Prazi/Observation for what it's worth. If I had to choose a dominant fish it would be a toss up between my Whitetailed Bristletooth and the Hawaiian Goldrim.

 

[seamonster]

The thing about tangs is that they are notoriously aggressive. The general rule of one per average size tank(50-100 gallon) is pretty much right on. However, stocking order is very important if one wants to keep more than one in a larger tank. You must go from least aggressive to most aggressive ( bristletooth first to acanthurus)...this goes for other fish too ( blennies, gobies first, then wrasses). Always add the most aggressive last, or you can add the tangs at the same time. Keep in mind that common sense goes a long way and the less fish the better because it keeps the stress levels down among the fishes.

 

[billrob71]

I have a 300 gallon tank and have a larger Atlantic tang, two yellows, a purple, a powder blue and a achillies all in the same tank the yellows and the purple are all about the same size and added at the same time, the achillies and the powder blue are also about the same time and added together but different times then the others , all get along pretty well the achillies and the powder blue do a circle dance every once in a while but for the most part all get along.

 

[Mindi]

I think individual situations can be way out from general rules. I have 140 USG of water in a 5ft tank, and 13 fish including a large Blue Tang (6-7") and a larger gold shoulder Tang (7-8") plus a Standard 3-4" Yellow Tang..............they are the happiest of tankmates and it is much more likely the Coral Beauty which stirs things up or the larger Barrier Reef Clown. My three Tangs (Fred MacMurray anyone..?) are the best of friends.

 

[rayn]

I have 3 Tangs, a Purple Tang, Orange Shoulder Tang, and an Ebili's Mimic tang in my aquarium along with a Magnificent Foxface in a 240 gallon tank. They get along well but I cannot add anything else. I feed a lot but they still tail slap each other and my Rabbit turns into a spiky disk of death on occasion. I think if you have the room it can be done but there's definitely limits.

This is the information that needs to be told. I’m in the process of setting a 240 mixed reef and would like to add tangs at some point. Knowing what others have been able to do and what pushes the limit is nice. Will my situation be he same? No one knows.

 

[HotRocks]

IMO for what it's worth. A very good article to read by @4FordFamily about Tang aggression is a good place to start. I am not an expert, but somewhere between expert and novice. My personal experience is as follows. You can have several tangs in the same display, but you need oversized equipment. I have a 200 gallon system, but my skimmer is made to handle 400 gallons. This allows the higher bio-load to be handled properly and maintain water quality. Also a very healthy diet of proper mix of frozen foods and enough high quality nori for everyone to graze upon for at least 3/4 of the day is a must. That is only the beginning. I have several tangs from multiple genus. Sometimes overwhelming an aggressor will keep them at bay, other times not. I have over a dozen tangs total. Achilles, powder blue and brown, chocolate, purple, blue hippo, yellow, scopas, desjardini and kole to list some. Believe it or not my scopas was my problem fish, I did have to remove him as he would not forget his targets. After this removal no more issues. Prior to that, my powder brown was showing aggressive behavior and I added additional tangs from the same genus and he forgot about his target the Achilles. So you can overstock and mix and match to your liking, but be prepared to remove a fish or two if need be. This is just my personal experience. Take it for what it's worth. Happy Reefing! Link to recommend article below
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/tang-aggression-understanding-and-combating.76/

 

[4FordFamily]

Agreed, tangs seem to get a long well with a well established pecking order, no complete jerks (it’ll happpen, so beware and have a plan B), and no seriously egregious decisions such as three powder blues, two Sohal, etc.

Spreading aggression is helpful, and a fat, healthy tang that’s able to do what it did in the wild (graze on algae all day) is a happy tang. Things can happen, a situation can not always be replicated — at one point before my fish accident in February (power outage while on vacation my father didn’t notice somehow) I had a pair of Achilles tangs. I’m reluctant to try again, although I have two currently getting along “swimmingly” (pun intended) currently.

I also had a pair of powder blue that were quarantined together and got along well. The first two weeks in the DT everything was great and then in 24 hours they had the divorce of a lifetime. I was able to save both tangs and move the aggressor to my angel tank, but you have to be on your toes. Don’t try pairs of PBT, they don’t usualky work out. As I say this, I have four together in quarantine now and it’s working fine I think I actually have two pairs but I’m quite leery, as you can imagine..

Leave that stuff for idiots like me, if I find a way to do things like that with some level of expected success I’ll of course share it with you all!

 

[Antics]

I think something else to touch on is that success is by no means assured as you progress. Having 5 tangs in my tank might work for me (and for now) but introducing another tang could throw the entire dynamic into chaos and result in failure. If you're reading this thread and planning to have multiple tangs either introduced simultaneously or through least to most aggresive temperament, you need to realize that this is less like building with Legos and more like Jenga.

In other words, this thread may be helpful to show how success has been achieved and to what extent, but there is no way to offer a blueprint for someone to just follow and expect the same results.

 

[HotRocks]

I think something else to touch on is that success is by no means assured as you progress. Having 5 tangs in my tank might work for me (and for now) but introducing another tang could throw the entire dynamic into chaos and result in failure. If you're reading this thread and planning to have multiple tangs either introduced simultaneously or through least to most aggresive temperament, you need to realize that this is less like building with Legos and more like Jenga.

In other words, this thread may be helpful to show how success has been achieved and to what extent, but there is no way to offer a blueprint for someone to just follow and expect the same results.

Very well put! Yes situationally anyone could have same Success, or a complete disaster!

 

[Michael43]

I have about 12 large tangs in a 320g system

 

[Chef Tommy]

Excuse the poor quality but here is a photo just so people can understand the size relationship between my fish. No damaged/nipped fins, no chasing, etc.

Stock list -

Magnificent Fox Face
Midas Blenny
Hippo Tang
Melanurus Wrasse
Borbonius Anthias
Whitetailed Bristletooth Tang
Desjardini Tang
Hawaiian Goldrimmed Tang
Purple Tang

added in that order with the newest addition being in the tank for a little over 3 months. All of my fish go through TTM/Prazi/Observation for what it's worth. If I had to choose a dominant fish it would be a toss up between my Whitetailed Bristletooth and the Hawaiian Goldrim.

I've got these 2 happy together in a 75. Convict tang & kole tang. Looking for a 3rd, I've read about odd numbers doing well. Tangs are my favorite and they are living with 3 chromis who school all over together which is fun to watch. Any suggestions on a third are welcomed, leaning toward an vlamigi.

 

[Sealion]

I have 3 tangs in my 93 gallon cube. They are doing great together. The nori goes on the glass in the same spot every time, so they all get to it.

 

[Doclight]

Love the convict tang!

 

[Montiguy1287]

Would you say there’s a tang “order” of introduction? For instance if someone sId, I want a blonde naso, a yellow, a purple, and a powder brown in a 500, what order do they “need” to be introduced?

 

[ca1ore]

I have 10 tangs across my system, but not all in the same physical tank. The big display, a 450, houses a Desjardini, chevron, yellow, purple and hippo. I did have a black in there too, but it is a wimp and got the stuffing beaten out of it so it now resides, recovered, with a small Naso and a zebra, in my 120 refugium. My 60 frag tank houses a small scopas and a small gem. Wish I could say the tangs in my 450 got along. They have established an uneasy 'peace' I suppose, but it is not unusual to see a few chunks of fin missing. Fortunately they regrow fast.