Bad Hanna ULR reagent?

[West1]

I got 2 new boxes of reagent this evening and it was perfect timing as I had one pack left from my older box of reagents (took almost 2 weeks to get shipment as carrier sent it to 2 different states, doh!).

Within the last 45 min, I used 4 packs, one of reagents from last box and got 4 different numbers? The last 3 were from Lot 0081 and first pack turned my water blue and made the Hanna checker blink at 200.
2nd reagent read 42 (or .129ppm).
3rd reagent read 11 (.034ppm).
batteries were swapped about 3mo ago and all readings from prior reagent boxes seemed normal or within reason.

I clean each vile after every use and put a piece of napkin inside to absorb any leftover DI.
I use a digital pipette for consistent ml per test (any test kit needing specific ml), I wipe down every vile and insert with the 10ml printing on vile facing me and mix everything with a magnetic stirrer.

At what point is this lot considered bad?
Asking for opinions before I complain.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I got 2 new boxes of reagent this evening and it was perfect timing as I had one pack left from my older box of reagents (took almost 2 weeks to get shipment as carrier sent it to 2 different states, doh!).

Within the last 45 min, I used 4 packs, one of reagents from last box and got 4 different numbers? The last 3 were from Lot 0081 and first pack turned my water blue and made the Hanna checker blink at 200.
2nd reagent read 42 (or .129ppm).
3rd reagent read 11 (.034ppm).
batteries were swapped about 3mo ago and all readings from prior reagent boxes seemed normal or within reason.

I clean each vile after every use and put a piece of napkin inside to absorb any leftover DI.
I use a digital pipette for consistent ml per test (any test kit needing specific ml), I wipe down every vile and insert with the 10ml printing on vile facing me and mix everything with a magnetic stirrer.

At what point is this lot considered bad?
Asking for opinions before I complain.

I wouldn't complain, just ring them, explain the issue and ask if there are any known issues with that batch.
They'll probably run some tests on the batch and get back to you, perhaps with replacements if they find a problem.

 

[West1]

I wouldn't complain, just ring them, explain the issue and ask if there are any known issues with that batch.
They'll probably run some tests on the batch and get back to you, perhaps with replacements if they find a problem.

I apologize, when said complain, I meant call them and let them know. Doing another test on another reagent now.

 

[West1]

21 (.064ppm), Gotta be something wrong with this batch

 

[gbroadbridge]

I apologize, when said complain, I meant call them and let them know. Doing another test on another reagent now.

Are you certain that they are the correct reagents for that checker?

Shouldn't they be HI-736-2

 

[West1]

Are you certain that they are the correct reagents for that checker?

Shouldn't they be HI-736-2

Oh wow, I didn’t realize that! I’ve been using the 774 for quite some time and always reference new reagent with last 2 packs of previous reagents!

I’ll give them a call and see what they say.

 

[Big E]

Yes, 774 is the wrong reagent......you won't get the same numbers as 736 reagent.

As far a consistency I would just test at the same time each day and don't do those type of back to back type tests. Our systems are way too dynamic to expect the tests to be exactly the same every few minutes apart from the next.

For example your tang could take a big poop in between and you may get a higher concentration in a single test.

I mainly test P04 and N03 about 2 hours after the lights are on and before I put any food in the tank.
I've done tests to find daily consumption of nutrients 24 hours apart and they are always spot on considering depletion rates, so it's probably fine to do that if you're looking to track test consistency.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Are you certain that they are the correct reagents for that checker?

Shouldn't they be HI-736-2

Good catch!

 

[Reef.]

Maybe the reagent is the same, the only difference I believe between the two checkers is the conversion from ppm to ppb, so maths, I think they may be the same reagent.

And it doesn’t explain why the readings are different each time.

 

[Dan_P]

Oh wow, I didn’t realize that! I’ve been using the 774 for quite some time and always reference new reagent with last 2 packs of previous reagents!

I’ll give them a call and see what they say.

The extreme differences in readings are an indication of a reagent issue not because you switched reagents. Both reagents should give about the same number in either Checker.

 

[taricha]

1st test 200+ (high contamination)
2nd : 42 (low contamination)
3rd : 11 (16+-5ppb)
4th : 21 (16+-5ppb)

This is what I see if the hanna cuvette is contaminated. This happens a number of ways - sometimes when I use the cuvette for a different test. It sometimes takes a couple of PO4 tests in the vial for it to work normally. I always rinse thoroughly, but this still happens sometimes.

I predict that the next packet will behave like the 3rd and 4th.

 

[West1]

Picked up some 736 reagent.
While at the Lfs, they have that high end API test kit that will test all params.

According to them, po4 is at .200!

Been having issues with my no3 & po4 for the past few days. I’ll add some gfo tonight and test w/proper reagent.


As per vials, I clean each vile after every use and use the same vial per test. I also have dedicated vials for big tank and frag tank.
Could be a number of reasons the 774 reagent was all over the place.

Time to get my nutrients down slowly!

 

[JS_racer]

Say, are you using the magnetic stir, or just shaking them??
Had one test pegging the meter at 0.90 blinking, super dark blue, another 0.04.. I shoke the low reading, pegged was doing the magnet... Not sure if the reagent, or my fingers plopping the pill in the vial.. Removed pil with stainless rod..
Still need to restest to confirm if it was fingers on the pil, or something else...
I was using the ulr phosphate, but also have the ulr phosphorus, and reagents for both

 

[West1]

Say, are you using the magnetic stir, or just shaking them??
Had one test pegging the meter at 0.90 blinking, super dark blue, another 0.04.. I shoke the low reading, pegged was doing the magnet... Not sure if the reagent, or my fingers plopping the pill in the vial.. Removed pil with stainless rod..
Still need to restest to confirm if it was fingers on the pil, or something else...
I was using the ulr phosphate, but also have the ulr phosphorus, and reagents for both

I’ve done both methods as of recent. Been using the micro magnetic stirrer for a few years and the 2 Lfs i go to here also use the exact same magnetic stirrer and they use ICP test and claim the Hanna dkh is the only one that is a little off from lab results (both Lfs).

I ended up ordering a new 736 and will compare the 2 when it arrives.
I prefer the 736 over the 774 due to the accuracy of the 736.

 

[West1]

Update…

New 736 arrived and numbers are still all over. Pretty frustrating now. Left is the new one. Right is the 2-3yr old Hanna that seems to be more somewhat consistent than the new one.
I emailed Hanna, I expect an “operator error reply.”

 

[Big E]

Imo, you're being way too picky............there's a certain amount of operator variability in how long you mix reagent, if you got it all into the vial and out of the pack. Some particles can stick to the side and on and on.

It's debatable if any living system is going to be the same minute by minute at those type of levels.

Do you really think a coral is going to react to an environment differently if the reading is .02 or .09 for example........... I seriously doubt it. Even the most nutrient reactive coral like an acropora isn't going to grow or color differently in my experience.

Just pick a range that's acceptable to you and go with it.

------------------

Just out of curiosity, have you ever tested fresh mixed saltwater? That would be a better test to see any real variability. I use IO and have tested mine many times and never got anything but zero with the 736. I always test after it's been mixing for 24 hours.

Even if you did see some variability at a zero level you can"t expect a $60 egg to be 100% accurate.

 

[West1]

Imo, you're being way too picky............there's a certain amount of operator variability in how long you mix reagent, if you got it all into the vial and out of the pack. Some particles can stick to the side and on and on.

Do you really think a coral is going to react to an environment differently if the reading is .02 or .09 for example........... I seriously doubt it. Even the most nutrient reactive coral like an acropora isn't going to grow or color differently in my experience.

Just pick a range that's acceptable to you and go with it.

After overdosing my tank from poor readings and now trying to recover about 800.00 in loss of sps and lps, I think I have a valid reason to be “picky”. I trusted my Hanna checkers and never second guessed the readings I got. I went out of my way to purchase add-on items like a 70.00 pipette and a 40.00 magnetic stirrer for consistency.
So yes, I am very skeptical now.

For the record… I empty reagent in vial, move packet right side up, then flick the packet again to get all reagent particles that get caught into the corners of the packet. I also insert the vial in the same exact placement due to the glass possibly having a variance in thickness/blemish.

 

[Big E]

Easy solution, quit dosing your tank.............adjust your export system or input of foods.
Dosing phosphate or nitrate liquids should be a short term fix for a week or two.

Use reefrooids or other natural foods..........it's not that hard and safer.

There are always going to be easy and safe fixes when it comes to nutrient levels whether you want them up or down. Think multiple weeks not days.

 

[West1]

Easy solution, quit dosing your tank.............adjust your export system or input of foods.
Dosing phosphate or nitrate liquids should be a short term fix for a week or two.

Lol. If I were still dosing, my Hanna checker would be accurate. I’ve been going to 2 different Lfs for testing while comparing it to my malfunctioning checker. I dosed for roughly 4-5 days and have been trying to recover tank for just over a week. 2-3 water changes daily while having to get water tested at the Lfs has certainly frustrated me.

My last 2 frag shipments from vendors practically never happened now and some long term colonies are in bad shape.

Parameters are finally near ideal numbers but I’m left with deficit of lost corals.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Easy solution, quit dosing your tank.............adjust your export system or input of foods.
Dosing phosphate or nitrate liquids should be a short term fix for a week or two.

Use reefrooids or other natural foods..........it's not that hard and safer.

There are always going to be easy and safe fixes when it comes to nutrient levels whether you want them up or down. Think multiple weeks not days.

Sure, however that is not what this thread is discussing.