Big hole in the middle of tail fin

[Breadbox]

I have a new flame angel in quarantine and she's being a complete PITA, refusing all food for a week and developing a hole with white edges in the middle of her tailfin.
I noticed a white bump on her tail fin a few days ago and this is what she's like now.

I'm so worried that I'm going to lose her, what is the nature of this aliment and what should I do?

 

[MnFish1]

Can you answer some of the questions asked in the sticky above?

BUt - in the meantime -

What other fish - bullying.
Any other fish sick?
any problems with acclimation?
The pictures are unclear - Could it be a parasite (freshwater dip - fluke) - could it be an isopod (also freshwater dip).
Your other parameters in the tank and fish?
Is the fish showing other symptoms - not eating, etc - to me it looks like an injury with an inflammatory response. Others will assuredly weigh in

 

[Breadbox]

BUt - in the meantime -

What other fish - bullying.
Any other fish sick?
any problems with acclimation?
The pictures are unclear - Could it be a parasite (freshwater dip - fluke) - could it be an isopod (also freshwater dip).
Your other parameters in the tank and fish?
Is the fish showing other symptoms - not eating, etc - to me it looks like an injury with an inflammatory response. Others will assuredly weigh in

There's white edge/stuff on only one side of the hole, the other 3 sides are clean, does it narrow things down?

It's in qt with an azure damsel, no aggression of any kind can be observed, they ignore one another. The damsel is active and eats all the food that the angel refuse. I do not believe it is bullying.

I do notice a white bump on the body of the damsel, it does look kinda like the bump on the angel's tail, but otherwise the damsel do not seem sick in anyway.

The tank is not exactly clean as I've being feeding all sorts of food to entice the angel to eat but ammonia is undetectable.
The tank is also ambient temperature which is like 29 degree celcius.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The tail issue could be a bite from the damsel with some secondary bacterial infection. The trouble is, the angel not eating preceded that, and a week without food is very serious (since it also may not have fed well since its capture some time before that).

Typically, water quality issues, improper diet and disease are the causes why a fish won't feed. Do you know, was it feeding for the store before you go it?

I have an article on anorexia posted on reefs.com, but the link isn't working today (it was fine last week).

Chronic Anorexia in Aquarium Fishes

Don't fall into the trap of assuming the fish will begin feeding when it gets hungry enough, or conclude it must be eating something, just not when you are watching.

reefs.com

Here is some text from it:

Chronic Anorexia in Aquarium Fishes

Jay Hemdal


Fish that refuse to feed in captivity is a problem for most aquarists from time to time. Once this difficulty begins with a particular specimen, the clock begins ticking; if the issue is not resolved within an appropriate period, the fish will die. Acute anorexia (where a fish suddenly stops feeding, or never starts feeding, and soon dies) is usually caused by some environmental issue; water quality problems, disease, transport stress or tankmate aggression. Chronic anorexia is a rarer problem, where the fish has apparently adapted well to captivity in all respects except that it does not show a normal feeding response. The term anorexia is replaced with inanition (loss of energy due to lack of food) or inappetance (lack of appetite) by some authors. In the cases described here, the term anorexia is perhaps a better fit as it is defined as “an aversion to food due to serious psychological problems”. In some cases, the fish had been feeding well and then stopped for some unknown cause, in other cases, a newly acquired fish refuses to feed despite its apparent environmental needs being met. Weight loss may or may not be apparent in the animal, and inanition is not observed until just before the fish succumbs to the long-term problem. As the following case histories show, some fish have gone without food for extended periods and subsequently recovered. These are mostly older, larger fish, or those kept in temperate (cool) waters. At the other extreme, a post-larval butterflyfish may succumb if it goes even a few days without food.
There is a preferred course of action one should take to try to get a chronically anorexic fish to begin feeding. After the environmental problems mentioned above have all been ruled out, the second, most obvious step in resolving this sort of problem is to make certain that the food being offered is of a type and size known to be accepted by other members of the same species of fish. If the captive diet of the fish is unknown, or if the species is known to be a difficult feeder, the problem may not be just with the one specimen, but rather with the entire species. Assuming that other specimens of the same species are known to feed well on the food being offered, the next step is to change the delivery method. For predatory fish, stick feeding will sometimes work to get the fish feeding normally. Simply put, a food item is impaled on the end of a long stick and offered to the fish. However, there is an art to this delivery method. First, different species react in diverse ways to the presence of the feeding stick. Some fish ignore the stick, while others seem to shy away from even the thinnest, least visible of sticks. When in doubt, opt for a clear or very thin feeding stick. It seems that the end of the stick closest to the animal causes the most problem. Using a short length of heavy monofilament fishing line at the end of the stick helps make it less visible to the fish. Avoid wire or other overly stiff material as the fish may strike at the food, but then back away when it touches that material.
The tube-feeding process can be employed to give a fish food energy during the time it is anorexic. In some cases, this gives the aquarist enough time to determine a permanent solution. This process uses simple equipment - a syringe and a flexible plastic tube. Feline urinary catheters or avian tracheal tubes can be used for small fishes (Hemdal 2001). Larger fishes can be fed using standard airline tubing attached to a large syringe. A Luer-lock syringe will hold the feeding tube more securely to the syringe body. It helps with placing the tube if you first bevel the end of the tube. The tube should have marks on it at regular intervals so that you can more easily judge the depth of insertion.
The basic food recipe is to create a liquid that will easily pass through the feeding syringe and tube, but thick enough to carry a high amount of calories to the animal’s digestive track with the least amount of water. It is best to prepare this slurry in a blender, using materials that would be components of the fish’s normal diet.
The amount of food administered at one feeding is generally 2 to 4% of the animal’s body weight, just enough food to cause a slight distension of the animal’s belly. (Hemdal 2006). In most cases, the use of an anesthetic such as MS-222 is required to sedate the fish so the tube can be inserted. Holding the fish on its back, gently insert the tube into its mouth and try to locate the esophagus. If you are too far one side or the other, the tube will miss and emerge from under one of the gill covers. Once in place, gentle pressure on the syringe plunger will move the liquid food into the fish’s stomach. Once fed, the tube is gently withdrawn and the fish is moved to a recovery tank (Hemdal 2006). Spontaneous regurgitation is the most commonly seen problem, although there are reports of people accidentally rupturing the fish’s digestive track. Like any medical procedure, there are subtle techniques for this process that need to be learned through practice – so please do not expect to read this basic introduction and suddenly be proficient at tube-feeding fish.
Force-feeding is a technique that can be employed on larger carnivorous fishes. A sedated fish is held on its back while its mouth is opened. A food item of appropriate size for the animal is then placed in the back of the animal’s throat. A finger or semi-rigid tube is then used to gently push the food item into the stomach. In some species such as anglerfish and eels, there are back-curved vomerine teeth in their throat that will actually grasp the food item and keep the fish from voluntarily regurgitating it.
Be cautious in directly handling a fish during either of these two techniques as some have very sharp teeth, and of course, some fish have venomous spines.

Be sure to evaluate a non-feeding fish right away and take steps to resolve any environmental problems. Don’t fall into the trap of assuming the fish will begin feeding when it gets hungry enough, or conclude it must be eating something, just not when you are watching. A fish that does not actively pursue and consume food that you offer it is going to have problems surviving for the long term.


Jay

 

[Breadbox]

The tail issue could be a bite from the damsel with some secondary bacterial infection. The trouble is, the angel not eating preceded that, and a week without food is very serious (since it also may not have fed well since its capture some time before that).

Typically, water quality issues, improper diet and disease are the causes why a fish won't feed. Do you know, was it feeding for the store before you go it?


Jay

Actually it is, it is in a small acclimation box in the store and took 1-2 pellets when fed.

To be precise it didn't go completely without food for a week, it took 1 small bite of mysis, 1 small bite of lrs and 1 pellet on seperate days in the one week in qt.

It refuses to eat anymore than 1 measly bite occasionally and it's driving me up the wall. Does the angel look emaciated in the photo?

I think I'll dose some api general cure or kanaplex in the qt, would it reduce fish appetite further?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Actually it is, it is in a small acclimation box in the store and took 1-2 pellets when fed.

To be precise it didn't go completely without food for a week, it took 1 small bite of mysis, 1 small bite of lrs and 1 pellet on seperate days in the one week in qt.

It refuses to eat anymore than 1 measly bite occasionally and it's driving me up the wall. Does the angel look emaciated in the photo?

I think I'll dose some api general cure or kanaplex in the qt, would it reduce fish appetite further?

It looks a bit thin in the belly, but not too emaciated in the body itself. The worry I have is that flame angels are typically handled well and not collected with cyanide - so unlike other pygmy angels from the Pacific areas like Indonesia, they shouldn't have feeding difficulties resulting from poor collection/handling techniques.

If there is a disease problem causing it not to feed, then of course a proper medication should help. The trouble is, I don't have any clues to go on that disease would be.

Can you post a short video? That might give me some clues to go on.

Jay

 

[Breadbox]

It looks a bit thin in the belly, but not too emaciated in the body itself. The worry I have is that flame angels are typically handled well and not collected with cyanide - so unlike other pygmy angels from the Pacific areas like Indonesia, they shouldn't have feeding difficulties resulting from poor collection/handling techniques.

If there is a disease problem causing it not to feed, then of course a proper medication should help. The trouble is, I don't have any clues to go on that disease would be.

Can you post a short video? That might give me some clues to go on.

Jay

Please take a look, the hole seem to be rapidly enlarging, the lips seem abit white and swelled.
She hides in the rock cave most of the time, but doesn't seem afraid of people and swims around semi frequently.

 

[Breadbox]

 

[Breadbox]

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Well, overall, the fish looks good that hole in the fin isn't the cause of the fish not eating. One thing I see is that it is a very small angel. The damsel is also very large. I would be worried about the damsel bullying the angel.

The water temperature is a bit high for this species, can you lower it to 27?

Aside from it not eating, the course of action for the fin lesion would ab a broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic. I'm not sure what brands you have available, but Neoplex is one you could try.

Jay

 

[Breadbox]

Well, overall, the fish looks good that hole in the fin isn't the cause of the fish not eating. One thing I see is that it is a very small angel. The damsel is also very large. I would be worried about the damsel bullying the angel.

The water temperature is a bit high for this species, can you lower it to 27?

Aside from it not eating, the course of action for the fin lesion would ab a broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic. I'm not sure what brands you have available, but Neoplex is one you could try.

Jay

Thank you,

The rate at which the fin is deteriorating is truly frightening, this is a mere 24 hours later, does this remind you of anything. I do not believe the damsel is the cause, the angel is larger and more aggressive than the damsel(she shoos the damsel away sometime), could the damsel be nipping the angel's fin at night?

Would kanaplex work? Neoplex would take time to arrive.
please, is there any drastic measure that could be done other than antibiotics? Would moving to a fresh bucket of saltwater help?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you,

The rate at which the fin is deteriorating is truly frightening, this is a mere 24 hours later, does this remind you of anything. I do not believe the damsel is the cause, the angel is larger and more aggressive than the damsel(she shoos the damsel away sometime), could the damsel be nipping the angel's fin at night?

Would kanaplex work? Neoplex would take time to arrive.
please, is there any drastic measure that could be done other than antibiotics? Would moving to a fresh bucket of saltwater help?

Moving to a new tank or new water won't help, as this infection is localized on the fish's body. As I mentioned, you need to dose it with a broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic....I'm just not sure what you have available in your region.

Jay