Birdnest tissue dying from bottom up, Acro won't extend polyps.

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Kurant

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I'm about to give up on corals. I can't quite figure this out.


RSR 300XL
2x XR15 running Saxby's
Ecotech S2 return.
25w UV
Red Sea RSK300
ClariSea 3000
2x MP40's Reef Crest mode, anti-sync 45%
1x MP10 at 60% continuous (Bare bottom, helps push crap to the front so I can suction out.)

7 fish:

2 wrasse
2 Clowns
1 Flameback Angel

Also have another small wrasse and Tomini Tang temporarily being housed for a buddy with a tank that leaked. His new tank gets here on the 23rd. So they will be gone before end of June.

Parameters

Hanna:
Nitrate 12-14
Phosphate .03
Alk 8.0

pH 8.3 (5pm just before lights turn blue and start to ramp down. Apex reads 8.0-8.33 throughout day lights on to dark.)

Dose All For Reef 21ml a day keeps Alk at 8.2 Calc 470. Mag 1450. (These are all Trident numbers as of this morning before water change. Red Sea tests and Hanna Alkalinity reads slightly lower for all 3.. Red Sea tests are a little difficult to determine the absolute color for me, but they are all close to the Trident.)

Can't keep stuff alive. I did have a period of low nutrients, before the SPS went in, brought those up dosing NeoPhos and NeoNitro over a couple week period. Lost about 80% of 2 Acan frags, since have slowly started recovering since that. Have a torch that hasn't grown in months, it just stays the same. Zoa frag I got, has had 5 heads for a couple months, good extension, just hasn't grown any new polyps.

Not totally sure where to go from here. Best and most consistent parameters I've had.

IMG_0819.jpg
 
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LegalReefer

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First, mind sharing pics so we know what we’re looking at and working with? Much appreciated.

Second, stop chasing numbers would be my advice. Stop dosing, stop adding, let things sit and run stably and comfortably for as long as possible. The fact that your zoas haven’t grown at all seems to me that your tank is in flux constantly and hasn’t found a sweet spot to sit. Corals like things stable and consistent. This can take a while, the waiting isn’t always fun and we constantly want to be doing something to improve or change things up. Sometimes, however, the only thing to do is take your hands out of the tank, sit back, and let things stabilize.
 

Lavey29

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I have the same tank and same lights and strangely almost the same scape running MP40s to.

What are your light settings and intensity? Have you done an ICP test to check all parameters? Do you think you lack some biodiversity going bare bottom?

How old is your tank? Mine really changed for the good side at one year.
 
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Kurant

Kurant

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I have the same tank and same lights and strangely almost the same scape running MP40s to.

What are your light settings and intensity? Have you done an ICP test to check all parameters? Do you think you lack some biodiversity going bare bottom?

How old is your tank? Mine really changed for the good side at one year.

The tank is going on about 8 months old.

I haven't done an ICP yet. I was thinking about ordering one here soon.

I run Saxby's and left all the %'s alone except the schedule intensity setting I leave at 80%.

I used a big bio plate and some of the brightwell blocks in my sump to make up for the lack of sand.
 
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Kurant

Kurant

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First, mind sharing pics so we know what we’re looking at and working with? Much appreciated.

Second, stop chasing numbers would be my advice. Stop dosing, stop adding, let things sit and run stably and comfortably for as long as possible. The fact that your zoas haven’t grown at all seems to me that your tank is in flux constantly and hasn’t found a sweet spot to sit. Corals like things stable and consistent. This can take a while, the waiting isn’t always fun and we constantly want to be doing something to improve or change things up. Sometimes, however, the only thing to do is take your hands out of the tank, sit back, and let things stabilize.

To be fair, I really didn't chase any numbers. The only number I "chased" was getting away from phosphate and nitrate reading 0 on Hanna tests.

As for dosing, calcium was getting in the mid 300's between water changes. But I can surely stop that and see what happens.

I will post pics.
 

Lavey29

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The tank is going on about 8 months old.

I haven't done an ICP yet. I was thinking about ordering one here soon.

I run Saxby's and left all the %'s alone except the schedule intensity setting I leave at 80%.

I used a big bio plate and some of the brightwell blocks in my sump to make up for the lack of sand.
I run AB plus program at 65%. I run my MP40s at max of 38% during the day in lagoon mode. Have you par checked your tank? That extra MP10 may be to much flow throughout the tank if you have softs and LPS. ICP will help in case you have an unknown issue like rust on a magnet or something. I had some difficulty too until the tank matured.
 

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Kurant

Kurant

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I run AB plus program at 65%. I run my MP40s at max of 38% during the day in lagoon mode. Have you par checked your tank? That extra MP10 may be to much flow throughout the tank if you have softs and LPS. ICP will help in case you have an unknown issue like rust on a magnet or something. I had some difficulty too until the tank matured.
I haven't checked PAR at all. I live in Alaska, not too many PAR meters to rent or use around here. Lol.

As for the flow, I have considered the fact it may be too much, but I left it alone just for the sake of not messing with things. I know it sounds like I'm tinkering constantly, but I'm really not. I rarely do anything to the tank other than change water and addressed issues like the low nutrients, when I thought that was a problem.
 

Lavey29

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I haven't checked PAR at all. I live in Alaska, not too many PAR meters to rent or use around here. Lol.

As for the flow, I have considered the fact it may be too much, but I left it alone just for the sake of not messing with things. I know it sounds like I'm tinkering constantly, but I'm really not. I rarely do anything to the tank other than change water and addressed issues like the low nutrients, when I thought that was a problem.
Well your numbers seem fine and I see plenty of coraline there so that leaves lights or flow as possible issues unless ICP shows something we can't test for typically.
 

SteveMM62Reef

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Try repositioning your lights, so they shine on the Birds nest lower branches. Most likely the top Branches are blocking the light to the lower branches. BTW, I found Birds nest grows best when attached to the back wall of the Aquarium near a drain flow. CF90B394-AF68-493C-8552-99793E9774C5.jpeg
 

vetteguy53081

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Often , dying from the bottom up signifies water quality or other issues such as:
  • Elevated nutrient levels - phosphates or nitrates, or both. These nutrients are perfect food sources for zooxanthellae which cause their overproduction.
  • Not enough lighting. When the lighting is too low, excessive zooxanthellae production happens.
  • Changes in tank water parameters
To further touch, stressors such as increased temperature either modify the structure of the coral microbial symbiotic community or trigger the production of virulence factors. Temperature stress can increase chances of coral disease development in several ways by creating stress in the coral zooxanthellae and decreasing its resistance to infection, increasing growth and virulence of opportunistic coral pathogens, and decreasing the production of antimicrobials by symbiotic bacteria in the coral mucus, thereby facilitating the growth of opportunistic and potentially pathogenic bacteria.

Some other possible triggers are:
- Alkalinity spike
- Temperature spike
- Salinity spike
- Low dissolved oxygen
- Poor water quality related with phosphate levels up to 5 ppm
- Change in water flow
- Additions of sand
- Changes in brand of salt
- Bad test kits giving faulty results
- Levels of minor elements such as Iodine, Potassium, Strontium
- Light intensity
- - Changes in water flow
- Addition of new corals
- - Pesticides
- Airborne Contaminants or sprays
 
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Kurant

Kurant

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Often , dying from the bottom up signifies water quality or other issues such as:
  • Elevated nutrient levels - phosphates or nitrates, or both. These nutrients are perfect food sources for zooxanthellae which cause their overproduction.
  • Not enough lighting. When the lighting is too low, excessive zooxanthellae production happens.
  • Changes in tank water parameters
To further touch, stressors such as increased temperature either modify the structure of the coral microbial symbiotic community or trigger the production of virulence factors. Temperature stress can increase chances of coral disease development in several ways by creating stress in the coral zooxanthellae and decreasing its resistance to infection, increasing growth and virulence of opportunistic coral pathogens, and decreasing the production of antimicrobials by symbiotic bacteria in the coral mucus, thereby facilitating the growth of opportunistic and potentially pathogenic bacteria.

Some other possible triggers are:
- Alkalinity spike
- Temperature spike
- Salinity spike
- Low dissolved oxygen
- Poor water quality related with phosphate levels up to 5 ppm
- Change in water flow
- Additions of sand
- Changes in brand of salt
- Bad test kits giving faulty results
- Levels of minor elements such as Iodine, Potassium, Strontium
- Light intensity
- - Changes in water flow
- Addition of new corals
- - Pesticides
- Airborne Contaminants or sprays
I didn't even consider brand of salt.

I just recently switched from Tropic Marin to Red Sea because I had 3 of the containers from Turkey. I actually didn't even think about that fact until right now.
 
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Kurant

Kurant

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Often , dying from the bottom up signifies water quality or other issues such as:
  • Elevated nutrient levels - phosphates or nitrates, or both. These nutrients are perfect food sources for zooxanthellae which cause their overproduction.
  • Not enough lighting. When the lighting is too low, excessive zooxanthellae production happens.
  • Changes in tank water parameters
To further touch, stressors such as increased temperature either modify the structure of the coral microbial symbiotic community or trigger the production of virulence factors. Temperature stress can increase chances of coral disease development in several ways by creating stress in the coral zooxanthellae and decreasing its resistance to infection, increasing growth and virulence of opportunistic coral pathogens, and decreasing the production of antimicrobials by symbiotic bacteria in the coral mucus, thereby facilitating the growth of opportunistic and potentially pathogenic bacteria.

Some other possible triggers are:
- Alkalinity spike
- Temperature spike
- Salinity spike
- Low dissolved oxygen
- Poor water quality related with phosphate levels up to 5 ppm
- Change in water flow
- Additions of sand
- Changes in brand of salt
- Bad test kits giving faulty results
- Levels of minor elements such as Iodine, Potassium, Strontium
- Light intensity
- - Changes in water flow
- Addition of new corals
- - Pesticides
- Airborne Contaminants or sprays

Curious, if you were in my shoes, what steps would you take?
 

vetteguy53081

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Curious, if you were in my shoes, what steps would you take?
-
-Water test focusing on Calcium-alk-nitrates-phosphates and salinty
- Quick dip
- Assure base is getting light and flow
- Check for pests which are often tiny
 

Rams

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You are gonna have to explain how that one works.
Everything is here in this thread but I am dosing Aquaforest Pro Bio S and NP pro right now.it doesn’t matter zeovit or Aquaforest or algaebarn or microbacter7.your system needs to be bacteria diversified.

 

Rams

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one more to read
 
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bert236

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Everything is here in this thread but I am dosing Aquaforest Pro Bio S and NP pro right now.it doesn’t matter zeovit or Aquaforest or algaebarn or microbacter7.your system needs to be bacteria diversified.

Thank you I will check them out. Hopefully they are helpful to op as well.
 
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