Chitosan-enhanced filtration

[Aquatican]

Hello, Randy and company,

Randy, enjoyed the Reef Aquaria with Low Soluble Metals-very interesting. It did, however, raise some questions, which I wonder if you could help me resolve. Firstly, since Poly Filter is "saturated with the trace elements found in synthetic seawater", how can we be assured that the filter--under the right/wrong conditions--won't uptake the trace elements we need in our reef tanks. The reason why I ask this is because my ICP test after running the filter for 3 months to combat a previous test that showed high aluminum resulted in a rather shocking decline in trace elements. In short, my three-months-prior test had my trace elements at acceptable levels, but the recent results showed non-detectable levels of
Nickel, Manganese, Iron, and Chrome and deficiencies in Iodine, Bromine, Zinc, Vanadium, Copper, Molybdenum and Barium.

Related or unrelated, I now seem to have high Selenium (>169μg), which I want to reduce. I don't think the Poly FIlter can reduce Se, so I have looked for other solutions. Have you ever researched chitosan-enhanced filtration? I was wondering about how to incorporate some form of chitosan filtration to purify my aquarium and wondered if you had any advice on how to incorporate it into reef aquaria to combat metal toxicity.

 

[Larry L]

The reason why I ask this is because my ICP test after running the filter for 3 months to combat a previous test that showed high aluminum resulted in a rather shocking decline in trace elements. In short, my three-months-prior test had my trace elements at acceptable levels, but the recent results showed non-detectable levels of
Nickel, Manganese, Iron, and Chrome and deficiencies in Iodine, Bromine, Zinc, Vanadium, Copper, Molybdenum and Barium.

Interested in this topic because I also occasionally run Poly-Filters. Just curious, did you previously have steady levels of these trace elements, and are you sure this wasn't just normal depletion over the course of three months?

 

[Aquatican]

Interested in this topic because I also occasionally run Poly-Filters. Just curious, did you previously have steady levels of these trace elements, and are you sure this wasn't just normal depletion over the course of three months?

Hi Larry,

I am not sure, but I can't see how the depletion can occur in the last three months and not in the months prior because I always do weekly 15% water changes and my dosing of Red Sea Foundation A and B plus the Coral Colors has been constant. In fact, in the last 3 months from when I first started losing coral, I would assume that depletion should decline along with the decrease demand from there being fewer corals.

The only other possibility for the stripping of elements could be from my calcified macro algae, which was added to the system about 2 months ago, but I will need to research this or get input from some who know the effect of Shaving Brush, (Penicillus dumetosus) and Money Plant (Halimeda) on trace elements.

 

[Dan_P]

Hello, Randy and company,

Randy, enjoyed the Reef Aquaria with Low Soluble Metals-very interesting. It did, however, raise some questions, which I wonder if you could help me resolve. Firstly, since Poly Filter is "saturated with the trace elements found in synthetic seawater", how can we be assured that the filter--under the right/wrong conditions--won't uptake the trace elements we need in our reef tanks. The reason why I ask this is because my ICP test after running the filter for 3 months to combat a previous test that showed high aluminum resulted in a rather shocking decline in trace elements. In short, my three-months-prior test had my trace elements at acceptable levels, but the recent results showed non-detectable levels of
Nickel, Manganese, Iron, and Chrome and deficiencies in Iodine, Bromine, Zinc, Vanadium, Copper, Molybdenum and Barium.

Related or unrelated, I now seem to have high Selenium (>169μg), which I want to reduce. I don't think the Poly FIlter can reduce Se, so I have looked for other solutions. Have you ever researched chitosan-enhanced filtration? I was wondering about how to incorporate some form of chitosan filtration to purify my aquarium and wondered if you had any advice on how to incorporate it into reef aquaria to combat metal toxicity.

How do you know that ICP results are reliable?

 

[Rick Mathew]

Hello, Randy and company,

Randy, enjoyed the Reef Aquaria with Low Soluble Metals-very interesting. It did, however, raise some questions, which I wonder if you could help me resolve. Firstly, since Poly Filter is "saturated with the trace elements found in synthetic seawater", how can we be assured that the filter--under the right/wrong conditions--won't uptake the trace elements we need in our reef tanks. The reason why I ask this is because my ICP test after running the filter for 3 months to combat a previous test that showed high aluminum resulted in a rather shocking decline in trace elements. In short, my three-months-prior test had my trace elements at acceptable levels, but the recent results showed non-detectable levels of
Nickel, Manganese, Iron, and Chrome and deficiencies in Iodine, Bromine, Zinc, Vanadium, Copper, Molybdenum and Barium.

Related or unrelated, I now seem to have high Selenium (>169μg), which I want to reduce. I don't think the Poly FIlter can reduce Se, so I have looked for other solutions. Have you ever researched chitosan-enhanced filtration? I was wondering about how to incorporate some form of chitosan filtration to purify my aquarium and wondered if you had any advice on how to incorporate it into reef aquaria to combat metal toxicity.

Being that you have done 15% water changes over the period...That is highly suspicious that they all dropped off at once...I would be wondering about the ICP test results...I am not real familiar with the Poly-Filter but I believe it does not remove trace elements...at least that is what they say on their website..

rick

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello, Randy and company,

Randy, enjoyed the Reef Aquaria with Low Soluble Metals-very interesting. It did, however, raise some questions, which I wonder if you could help me resolve. Firstly, since Poly Filter is "saturated with the trace elements found in synthetic seawater", how can we be assured that the filter--under the right/wrong conditions--won't uptake the trace elements we need in our reef tanks. The reason why I ask this is because my ICP test after running the filter for 3 months to combat a previous test that showed high aluminum resulted in a rather shocking decline in trace elements. In short, my three-months-prior test had my trace elements at acceptable levels, but the recent results showed non-detectable levels of
Nickel, Manganese, Iron, and Chrome and deficiencies in Iodine, Bromine, Zinc, Vanadium, Copper, Molybdenum and Barium.

Related or unrelated, I now seem to have high Selenium (>169μg), which I want to reduce. I don't think the Poly FIlter can reduce Se, so I have looked for other solutions. Have you ever researched chitosan-enhanced filtration? I was wondering about how to incorporate some form of chitosan filtration to purify my aquarium and wondered if you had any advice on how to incorporate it into reef aquaria to combat metal toxicity.

The polyfilter will potentially take up some we want, and may actually add some we do not want (they have dropped this claim in their advertising that I have seen, but I do not know if they have changed the manufacturing). I would not use it unless there is a problem that is trying to be fixed, not as a preventive.

I am very familiar with chitosan as I use it at work sometimes. I'm not sure how one would use it to benefit in a reef aquarium context. DId you have an idea in mind?

 

[Aquatican]

How do you know that ICP results are reliable?

Hi Dan, That is the million dollar question, isn't it! I have seen some some postings by reefers who send out water samples to three different companies and the variance is shocking! Any opinion on which ICP test is the most reliable?

 

[Aquatican]

I am very familiar with chitosan as I use it at work sometimes. I'm not sure how one would use it to benefit in a reef aquarium context. DId you have an idea in mind?

Thanks for the reply, Randy. Because chitosan is a flocculent, I was wondering if small doses couldn't get filtered out with a filter sock and/or skimmer after our unwanted, suspended metal particles coalesced with the chitosan. I have read of studies where it has been added to filter media (i.e. bricks) for waste/storm water purification, and wondered if there wasn't something there for us in the marine aquarium hobby. From what I understand, chitosan is known to be "eco-friendly because only very small amounts of it are needed to effectively treat water, and it does not persist in the environment; typically, it breaks down rapidly through microbial activity." Could it not be used in a manner similar to lanthanum chloride? Do you know which form of chitosan could be used (i.e., low, medium of high molecular weight form or non-animal derived) and will it be safe on fish and corals during the treatment?

 

[Dan_P]

Hi Dan, That is the million dollar question, isn't it! I have seen some some postings by reefers who send out water samples to three different companies and the variance is shocking! Any opinion on which ICP test is the most reliable?

Unfortunately, the issue may be impossible to resolve. There is no way to judge (1) accuracy of a vendor’s measurement, (2) the amount of change in your sample while it is in mail, and (3) the vendor’s quality of error checking.

I often wonder why ICP vendors never provide an estimate of the error in their measurement so that we can determine whether an element concentration is or is not likely to be out of range. Based on the variance in results I have seen, I think the standard deviation might be so large as to put the ICP vendors out of business.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the reply, Randy. Because chitosan is a flocculent, I was wondering if small doses couldn't get filtered out with a filter sock and/or skimmer after our unwanted, suspended metal particles coalesced with the chitosan. I have read of studies where it has been added to filter media (i.e. bricks) for waste/storm water purification, and wondered if there wasn't something there for us in the marine aquarium hobby. From what I understand, chitosan is known to be "eco-friendly because only very small amounts of it are needed to effectively treat water, and it does not persist in the environment; typically, it breaks down rapidly through microbial activity." Could it not be used in a manner similar to lanthanum chloride? Do you know which form of chitosan could be used (i.e., low, medium of high molecular weight form or non-animal derived) and will it be safe on fish and corals during the treatment?

Most toxic metals are not generally particles but individual ions that will not bind to chitosan. metal oxide or carbonate particulates, if any, are not generally much concern.

But if the goal is removing fine particles of calcium carbonate, chitosan may be helpful. Anionic polymers would be more so, IMO. Coral snow is likely an anionic polymer.