Copper resistant ich or something else?

[lba4590]

I’ve had these two fish in QT for a little over a week, exactly 7 days in copper power at 2.00-2.05 ppm. They are scratching, and showing signs of what looks like ich. This started happening in the last 2 days. There is no ich in my DT and no chance of cross contamination (QT has all its own supplies as far away from the DT as possible). What else can I do for these guys? I’m getting so frustrated!

I can’t seem to get decent photos of the hippo tang but he looks worse in person. The foxface pictures are pretty accurate.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Some of those spots look a bit too large and diffuse to be ich. It is common to have more than one disease affecting the fish at the same time. I suspect they could also have flukes. Have you ever done a 5 minute freshwater dip? That can be used to diagnose flukes, and buy you a little time. Be careful though, the fox face has venomous spines. Look for dead flukes in the bottle m of the dip container. Prazipro would be the treatment to use, General cure also works, but it may not be as safe to use with copper.
Jay

 

[lba4590]

Some of those spots look a bit too large and diffuse to be ich. It is common to have more than one disease affecting the fish at the same time. I suspect they could also have flukes. Have you ever done a 5 minute freshwater dip? That can be used to diagnose flukes, and buy you a little time. Be careful though, the fox face has venomous spines. Look for dead flukes in the bottle m of the dip container. Prazipro would be the treatment to use, General cure also works, but it may not be as safe to use with copper.
Jay

I did 2 rounds of general cure when they first went in and when I was ramping up copper, but I will try a FW dip, thank you Jay! I will do the tang first, the foxface is such a scaredy-cat that I’m afraid of totally stressing him out. I have had bad experiences with FW dips in the past on overly stressed fish. If I do see flukes, can I safely dose full strength prazipro with the copper?

I also just raised the copper level a bit to 2.26. Seeing if that helps. None of the fish seem to mind thankfully. It’s so hard to get a decent photo but the hippo tang definitely has tiny spots I can count, easier to see from the side.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

What is the full dose for your copper med? You don’t want to go higher than the maximum they suggest. Copper takes a bit of time to work, it isn’t unusual for the fish to get worse before they get better. The rule of thumb is; if you lose a fish due to a FW dip, it was going to die soon anyway.
Jay

 

[lba4590]

What is the full dose for your copper med? You don’t want to go higher than the maximum they suggest. Copper takes a bit of time to work, it isn’t unusual for the fish to get worse before they get better. The rule of thumb is; if you lose a fish due to a FW dip, it was going to die soon anyway.
Jay

thank you! I’m hoping that is the case (getting worse before they get better). Just did a FW dip on the tang and didn’t see anything at all. He’s acting a bit off now, kind of frantically moving back and forth in one spot. Hoping he’ll be back to normal soon.

The full dose says 2.5ppm on the bottle but I read anything over 1.75 is considered therapeutic? I didn’t want to go all the way to 2.5, seems a bit high to me, I think 2.25 gives me some wiggle room.

 

[lba4590]

I forgot to include some pictures I took right before the dip. Upon closer inspection, it doesn’t really look like ich? I’m so confused! Flesh colored out of the water, kind of fuzzy under the water.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hard to say from the photos - I can't definitively ID flukes or ich from the pics. Hepatus tangs are really flaky after FW dips. If the fish improves tomorrow, to a point better than before the dip, you might consider that there are flukes, and try a prazi treatment. Keep going with the copper though - since ich kills fish much faster than flukes ever do.

Jay

 

[lba4590]

Thursday update, no improvement, ich spots are moving so I am at a loss.

I have been dosing Kanaplex and Metroplex every 48 hours, and I’m worried about totally decimating these guys immune systems. No other fish seem to have ich, but my yellow wrasse is uncomfortable and flashing. Possibly due to water quality, doing a 50% water change today.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is the tang still in a full dose of copper?
Jay

 

[lba4590]

Is the tang still in a full dose of copper?
Jay

Yes, checking daily with Hanna checker. Has been above 2.0ppm for 10 days now, more recently 2.25-2.30 (since Monday).

 

[MrPike]

What are you using to test copper? Also which copper are you using? They are not ubiquitous, they come in different forms and are therapeutic at different concentrations.

 

[MrPike]

Personally I’d get that copper to 2.5.