corals dying.. tank is crashing!

[nano reef]

I am not sure where to post this. I cant find where to post about tank crash! It all initially started when I went to do a WC and noticed my salinity was down to 1.020! I found out my refractometer lost calibration and only had rodi to calibrate with, problem was I have a red sea one someone gave me and a hydrometer too. I didnt know which was right. I was getting all different readings on all so scared to change until a new one came in and also ordered a hanna checker for salinity. So I added a little bit of salt to tank and I think I brought it up to 1022, then hanna comes in and brought it up to 1.025 and did a 50 percent water change. It a 10 gallon 6 month old tank. Corals looking okay at that time. 2 weeks prior I won 18 frags! I added then all to tank! Dumb move I realize, this bio load may have started this amonia or could have been from taking out live rock 3 times and cleaning food from inside the cave and under rock. We were trying to coax a new yellow clown goby to eat, I removed leftover food everyday with a turkey baster, all but in cave and under rocks, so I started taking the rocks out.

Week before I noticed my ammonia was up to 0.25. Dont trust seachem alerts that hang on wall!

At That point I should have added prime or something but everything seemed fine, I did remove my 2 clown fish. A few days before a yellow clown goby we had for a week jumped. My hubby had a dumb idea to add tiger copepods that someone at the lfs talked him into getting because the fish wouldnt eat. My thoughts were he was eatting off the reef.

So after the WC is when the corals started seeming stressed. It didnt dawn on me it was crashing. I thought maybe the copepods were bothering them because they were crawling all over them and possibly eatting them, and they seemed fine from the ammonia and even the salinty drop and correction. I also thought maybe it was a delayed reaction of upping it to fast. I did it in a matter of a few days but the next day one died and the next day another died and the zoas arent opening and acans are shriveled up and blasto's ect. Torch seemed okay and a duncan lost the bottom head, maybe because I set the big 8 head branching frag on sand bed and it sunk into sand a little so now the skin is peeling upward from the base that was in sand. I checked m y nitrates and nitrites and they were up. Nitrite about 20 to 40 and trites about 1.0. I started dosing with sea chem prime and doing wc every other day now, adding bacteria and nothing is helping. Goin to increase to everyday WC. Dosnt seem to help though. These parameters wont stay in check! The seachem brings it down but only temporary like for a few hours and scared to keep adding and as soon as it took out the nitrates the torch freaked! I think torches like nitrates. Today the skeleton is showing and it wont extend! I am sure it will be dead by tomorrow. Wish my lfs was open today because up untill last night it was doing better than the rest. Maybe she will keep them for me!

How can I leave a small amount of nitrates like 10 and remove the ammonia and the nitrite?

My big duncan heads are extending a little but the bottom one is dead and its peeling and I am sure the dead skin covering the area around the heads and making it hard to extend much. kind of blocking the exit so to speak! I am wondering if I should remove the skin on the branch, its very hard to explain what I mean. When my hubby gets here I will post a pic. I have a dendro that is dying as well and I noticed few days after I got it that the bottom head was dead and look like the skin was peeled off the braching area. That part has no skin and a bone white skeleton and when I ordered it the pic showed brown fuzzy skin on it! So maybe it wasnt supposed to be a bone white skeleton showing but I have seen pics of dendros both ways. Does anyone have dendro's are they white or brown? I know the heads are orange and yellow. Sorry to go in such detail about duncans and dendro but they are from same family and I feel I might be able to save the duncan and its my favorite. Its wanting to extend but that skin maybe blocking it and believe it may have been removed from the dendro and up unitl now it was alive and its barely clinging to life now. The heads never extended on dendro but I read they have to be trained. Its non photosynthetic, it did respond to food though.



I left another post about the copepods thinking they were the problem and people are just saying to let it cycle, and to add seachem bacteria and water changes. I have added dr tims amonia 2 x's and daily doses of microbe lift bacteria. I also thought the bacteria was the problem because I have read some horror stories on that!!

My alkalinity had went from 9 to 11. I havnt rechecked to day beacuse I have been researching so much.
Should I remove these corals? I thought of putting them in my 36 gallon but I am scared it will cause a crash if I put them all and its a newly cycled tank that I barely run lights. I really want to get it off to a good start and dont want o run lights and add coral but dont want the rest to die either! My ten gallon never even had algae because I went so slow and didnt run lights either or add corals then I added all these at once when I only had 4 frags before added slowly! I also didnt want these corals to keep acclimating to new lights but its now become an emergency! I think the sofies can stay beacuse they have a better chance. My other thought is to research and to set up an emergency tank. It wouldn't be cycled though unless I put them in the water I am removing from my 36 gallon today because It is past time for a water change. I could do half old water from 36 gallon and 1/2 new since its in need of a change. I fear the seachem stripping to much nitrates too and things arent getting better only worse! I have some microbe lift special blend water care that says when combined with the other microbe lift night out will start a cycle but who knows! I am going to add that to 10 gallon to right after water change today. None of this instant bacteria seems to work. I am going to add back my chemipure elite as well. I think that is supposed to lower nitrites and nitrites. Should not have removed with all this going on but my filter was getting crowded.

sorry to ramble, and that this is so long. Just wanted to leave lots of details but might have made it more confusing! Thanks for any help!

 

[brandon429]

removed

 

[brandon429]

removed

 

[nano reef]

I guess I put this in wrong place an only one person willing to help. Maybe just to long and no one bothered to read but they all died! All the lps that is. What a shame and looking back I guess I am a total idiot to not put them in my 36. so many people cycle atank and rush out and put corals in within a week, even less. That tank was probably cycled more than a moths! Good new is the softies are all okay except for 2 and wouldnt you know its my 2 favorite and expensive ones! A neon kenya tree and a purple mushroom with pink polka dots. It detached from rock and its in a seperate container but looks like some of the skin has came off on both sides. I cant even tell which side is up so that it can face the light! Its so tiny!

Seems like seachem only works if you put about 5 times the amount and spaced out to 2 times a day because once I did that there was no longer anything in water! Now I have quit dosing and its cycled and I didint have to reboot even@ Water is clean looking as well. I got out a tom of dead flesh so now jus t waiting for everything to fully open. I think on r ot two havent. Mostly zoas! Toadstool is fine...Softies are pretty tough! JUs sickens me I lost over 1,000.00 of brand new frags and a few colonys as well! I should have used my credit to get the illumagic blaze!!!!

 

[Fishbird]

I’m very sorry about your corals, and that for whatever reason your initial post slipped between the cracks.

I did have a little bit of trouble following the exact timeline but a few things jump out at me.

1) adding a bunch of corals at once will not increase your bioload in a meaningful way, so I don’t think your problem was adding too many at one time.

2) instability of parameters will kill corals. I think I remember posting in your other thread that it was likely the alkalinity swing (caused by the salinity swing) that was causing your problems with LPS.

3) I know some people do put corals in immediately and make it work but I think it’s fewer than one might guess. I also think the ones who do this have the tools (like testing equipment and backup testing equipment), skills/knowledge from months or years of reefing, and some luck, in order to make it work.

4) it sounds like your soft corals survived and that’s awesome! They are not *as*bothered by things like salinity and alkalinity swings so it makes sense to me that they survived and I hope they make a full recovery!

5) I often see people write about how a tank needs to be “mature” before adding LPS, but it seems to me that really what’s needed is an understanding of how water parameters can go wrong, the ability and systems to catch that (like a regular preemptive testing schedule), and the ability and knowledge to fix it at the appropriate rate (it sounds like your salinity dropped pretty quickly and then you raised it several points very quickly. If I’m wrong, disregard this, but if I’m right and such a thing happens again I would raise your salinity over the course of a week or more. This will be less stressful on corals. It sounds to me like you’ve learned a lot from this experience! I’m sorry it came at such a high price tag but I think you’re in a better place now to catch and fix problems early when you try LPS again. Good luck!

 

[Chewbacca]

Also take note that the water companies across the United States because of COVID-19 have induced higher chlorine and additives to their systems to reduce bacteria in the potable water systems. The addition of some of these chems WILL DESTROY your RODI membrane and if you do not test your production of water prior to mixing you could be at a great loss. Several local shops around South Florida have found this out the hard way. Thinking it was safe with out testing product and selling to customers. A lot of tank crashes and death to fish and corals. I never think that any filtered water product is safe until I see and watch the test results being performed. JUST A HEADS UP GOOD LUCK

 

[andrewey]

Also take note that the water companies across the United States because of COVID-19 have induced higher chlorine and additives to their systems to reduce bacteria in the potable water systems. The addition of some of these chems WILL DESTROY your RODI membrane and if you do not test your production of water prior to mixing you could be at a great loss. Several local shops around South Florida have found this out the hard way. Thinking it was safe with out testing product and selling to customers. A lot of tank crashes and death to fish and corals. I never think that any filtered water product is safe until I see and watch the test results being performed. JUST A HEADS UP GOOD LUCK

Would you be able to link to any sources about this? This is one of my fields of expertise and as of yesterday, the CDC, WHO, and EPA have not found any Coronavirus in municipal drinking water samples. This claim is all the more puzzling as the chlorine concentration is tightly monitored and regulated, so it is unlikely that a municipality could make such a change without notice.

I'm also not quite sure why they would be trying to reduce bacteria, given that COVID-19 is a virus?
Do you have any sources for this?

*There were a few cases in France and one in Turkey that I'm aware where extra chlorine was added secondary to stagnation of the water as water consumption had decreased.

 

[Chewbacca]

Ok let me rephrase. Since COVID-19 HAS started higher chlorine and additional additives have been shown on testing of water samples. Yes you can also check with you local water authority/provider. But also why are we wiping everything today with bleach and bacteria killing agents, hmmmm
Virus. The only backing that I have is thru my testing of product out of tap and out of RODI SYSTEM after product is made And in the logs I keep on my test performed between last year and now so my proof is in my pudding not on someone else’s word. Not to be a smart guy I’m just a dumb plumber. But yes the local pet shops have inquired about the increased Chloramines and yes they have increased usage in areas.

 

[Fishbird]

water companies across the United States because of COVID-19 have induced higher chlorine and additives to their systems to reduce bacteria in the potable water systems.

I don't think @andrewey was saying that bleach won't kill viruses, I think they were curious because you were the one saying that towns were claiming to add chlorine to kill bacteria because of coronavirus. Since coronavirus isn't a bacteria if a town says they're doing something "for bacteria because of coronavirus" then I would question that town/town employee because that statement makes no sense. It would be really alarming if multiple municipalities were employing people responsible for water quality decisions who didn't know the difference between bacteria and viruses.

Anyway, you are right that a lot of municipalities do change what they add to water either seasonally or to address an issue (not coronavirus), and I would agree that many people don't know that they can and should get their town's water report on a seasonal basis (and test their well water because runoff can change seasonally too). This has been happening since way before COVID19.

For the OP, I think this issue of changes of water ties into my point 5. People with more experience (like the experience of something going wrong with their RODI) are likely testing every bucket of fresh RODI to make sure its 0 TDS instead of just assuming.

 

[Krzydmnd]

a ten gallon tank is also much more difficult to keep parameters stable, even once matured. Could have been the lighting for SPS, too, at least as a contributing factor. If it's a purchased 10 gallon tank, often the lights that come with them are not strong enough for SPS, but will keep LPS and Softies alive. just my thoughts. Hope it all works out!

 

[Fishbird]

a ten gallon tank is also much more difficult to keep parameters stable, even once matured. Could have been the lighting for SPS, too, at least as a contributing factor. If it's a purchased 10 gallon tank, often the lights that come with them are not strong enough for SPS, but will keep LPS and Softies alive. just my thoughts. Hope it all works out!

Yes. I agree that the major and rapid salinity and alkalinity swings were likely a huge part of the problem. But this is good news because those are things that you should be able to avoid relatively easily in the future by calibrating your refractometer and testing the tank before you do a water change and the new water.

@nano reef
Do you have an ATO?

Are you seeing your tank consume alkalinity over the course of the week?