curing live rock with bleach and acid using inflatable pool

[Luno]

Aiptasia and Majano come in on corals for the most part not rock unless the fresh live rock has been exposed to them. An it is a fact of life the one will always be fighting pest's in a reef tank. Just like gardeners due with weeds in flower beds. One spends tons of money trying to create the natural nature of live rock with Dry rock an you can not do it. I see so much failure from that one factor in post's thru out the forums. If ones bacteria and sponge life is not correct chemistry is the least of ones worries. Once a bacterial cycle is robust enough to process the waste in the aquarium in all forms. Then you can deal with chemistry issues.

I can guarantee you it is actually rather simple to recreate the biology that live rock has with dead rock. Bacteria can also come in on many forms it doesn't only need to come in on rock. But you can choose to have it come in on something you can really pick out things you don't want to introduce. Not have it hide in a crevice of a rock and find it when you actually see it months later. The other benefit to dead rock you can lanthium treat it easily outside of the tank, and remove a large percentage of built up phosphate. Rather than putting a rock that may leach phosphate into your tank.

 

[reefwiser]

Its not leaching phosphate its the die off of the animals that did not transition from being taken out of the water and then put on a plane and then placed in a tank. There is so much more to live rock than just bacteria all the sponges and other bivalves that come in the rock. If you put rock in acid of coarse you are going to "LEACH" stuff you are dissolving the rock that way. Dead rock is a barren field and you are goint to sow coral seeds as well as weeds(Aiptasia ,algae of various types.)

 

[Luno]

Its not leaching phosphate its the die off of the animals that did not transition from being taken out of the water and then put on a plane and then placed in a tank. There is so much more to live rock than just bacteria all the sponges and other bivalves that come in the rock. If you put rock in acid of coarse you are going to "LEACH" stuff you are dissolving the rock that way. Dead rock is a barren field and you are goint to sow coral seeds as well as weeds(Aiptasia ,algae of various types.)

You understand at a certain point live rock will leach phosphate right. That's my point, it has nothing to do with die off. It's a major part of why some one would cook rock. Things like chlorine often used for this completely evaporate and anything that is left becomes inert it is basic science. At a certain point you have to separate speculation and what you hear around from people with actual truth and facts.

Again there are many ways for bacteria to enter a system it does not have to be live rock. I like to add half a cup of live sand from a tank, I can filter through it myself and check nothing I don't want in the sand is present at an eye sight. Your never gonna completely avoid unwanted life from entering the system but you can do a dang good effort at it.

As for bi valves and sponges I have seen these in my systems started with dry rock, no idea how they entered but again there is many ways for things to enter a tank.

Lastly and this is my most important for using dead rock. You can literally take your time and build the scape you want to built, you can cut, break, drill add rods and make a really stand out scape that would be very difficult with live rock. These days the rock walls and mass stacking of rocks is less popular to the strategic and out there structures that can be made with time and patience.

It's clear we're not going to yield to withers point of view, so I guess I'll leave it at that but thank you for an interesting discussion.

 

[reefwiser]

I have been keeping Saltwater aquariums over 30 years. I have had tons of live rock thru the years. Everything “leaches” phosphate
Building a scape is for those you do not understand that coral placement is more important than some cool
Rock work. Which over time if one is successful will not be seen in a full reef tank. Rock work is there for corals not for looks. It’s yielding it is a basic understand of reef keeping. Many new hobbyist have a twisted sense of what live rock is based on fears developed out of people making money on unfounded fears and lack of knowledge. Selling dry rock and bottles of bacteria is the basic issue. More people can be in the business of selling to hobbyist. Live rock sellers have to have a license and boats and there a limited people that do it.

 

[Luno]

All i'll say is what we thought was necessary and adequate years ago changes that's for everything. Somethings are tried and true and never falter and others can be changed and new ways can be found to be more beneficial. I'm not an advocate of bottle bacteria I've never used it so I can't speak to the pros and cons.

Also many things in nature we simply can't reproduce correctly in a small box of water we call our tanks, mass rock structures often hinder things in the long run when they allow build up and hinder flow. To say getting creative with a rock structure is not understanding rock work is a little out there. And honestly lack of understanding of the direction reef keeping us taking. Look at the old rock walls they are getting phased out for a reason. Again it's clear we aren't going to see eye to eye, which is great discussion moves everyone forward and ideas flowing. I'd suggest keeping an open mind to what's out there now and it's possible benefits. I've been stuck in the past with some of my methods which have worked over a decade and other things I'm coming around to new ways of doing things. The greater healthy and diversity of what we can keep now come from improved understanding and improved methodology.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I have been keeping Saltwater aquariums over 30 years. I have had tons of live rock thru the years. Everything “leaches” phosphate
Building a scape is for those you do not understand that coral placement is more important than some cool
Rock work. Which over time if one is successful will not be seen in a full reef tank. Rock work is there for corals not for looks. It’s yielding it is a basic understand of reef keeping. Many new hobbyist have a twisted sense of what live rock is based on fears developed out of people making money on unfounded fears and lack of knowledge. Selling dry rock and bottles of bacteria is the basic issue. More people can be in the business of selling to hobbyist. Live rock sellers have to have a license and boats and there a limited people that do it.

Ed, I must respectfully disagree. I actually think rockwork involves three parameters....coral placement, hiding places for fish, aesthetic appeal. If I simply wanted coral placement, I'd throw all the rock into the tank creating the Berlin wall....maximum area for coral placement. However, I'm also thinking fish, and what looks good to the eye. So I look at rock-scaping as a mixture of form and function. If I had the time, I'd pull up pictures of Berlin wall tanks that, in my opinion, look terrible, versus tanks that have great coral placement, hiding for he fish and great eye appeal. Just my two cents.

 

[ihavecrabs]

There are many successful ways to setup a reef tank. Live rock vs dry rock both have their benefits and opportunities.

There will never be one right way [emoji6]

 

[reefwiser]

Thye funny part guys is now people are finding they are needing to dose Phosphate and nitrate to their aquariums to for corals to grow well. Paul I am all about corals I like tanks where you don't even see the rock work and their are nothing but corals visible.

 

[reefwiser]

There are many successful ways to setup a reef tank. Live rock vs dry rock both have their benefits and opportunities.

There will never be one right way [emoji6]

Sadly, I see people spend tons of money and time trying to find the right way. The hobby needs to show new hobbyist a clear path to success and not thousands of paths with most leading to failure and exiting the hobby because of it. The churn of new hobbyist needs to slow down and turn into a large group of successful hobbyist.

 

[ihavecrabs]

Sadly, I see people spend tons of money and time trying to find the right way. The hobby needs to show new hobbyist a clear path to success and not thousands of paths with most leading to failure and exiting the hobby because of it. The churn of new hobbyist needs to slow down and turn into a large group of successful hobbyist.

I agree mostly. The error I see in your logic is you see only one possible right way (at least on rock options). I have seen many dry rock tanks that have grown into phenomenal acro covered paradises. I have seen the same with Live Rock.

The biggest killer to new reefer tanks is short cuts. One example/scenario I see all the time is my LFS sold me GFO and a reactor beause I complained of algae and I started running it without ever testing PO4 or continuing to test PO4.

 

[reefwiser]

Jon have you ever tried setting up a "real" live rock tank? I have set up and help many hobbyist with "Dry" rock tanks. As a aquarium club president since 1985 An someone who has answered hobbyist questions on forums for that long too. I Have seen a whole lot of tank setups. One can do many things and have success in the hobby but with each different way there are pit falls that need to be address if one follows down a certain path.
AS in your case with GFO the LFS may have mentioned it in pass and you may not have heard or understood the FULL nature of going down the GFO path to "fixing " your algae issue. Each path one takes in this hobby will lead one thru many pitfalls and not everyone is equipped to deal with the issues that will come up. So I have learned to lead hobbyist down the path of most success with as few pitfalls as possible. I always lean on the natural and simplest path to success in the hobby. I used GFO when it was first came out and learned its good points and bad.

 

[rioreef]

I have seen many threads with people talking about putting the LR in the acid. Understanding the precautions when doing this, my question is what do folks do with the acid after the process? I don't see people mention that.

BTW, my rock was running in my tank for about 10 years. Bubble algae took over to the point of a total breakdown. Cleaned and scrubbed the rock, bleached process several times, sun dried for a summer, and then into a brute container at a very low salinity. After about 3 months, brought up salinity to norm levels and seeded with bacteria and cured the rock for another year in the dark adding ammonia and reseeding during this time to keep the bac population up. Been running now in the DT since Aug 17 with only one red slime occurrence.

 

[reefwiser]

If one is using muriatic acid you would use Baking soda or garden lime as a neutralizer. One would also want to watch out for the fumes coming off the rock in case there are zoa's or other toxic animals in the rock.

 

[ihavecrabs]

Jon have you ever tried setting up a "real" live rock tank? I have set up and help many hobbyist with "Dry" rock tanks. As a aquarium club president since 1985 An someone who has answered hobbyist questions on forums for that long too. I Have seen a whole lot of tank setups. One can do many things and have success in the hobby but with each different way there are pit falls that need to be address if one follows down a certain path.
AS in your case with GFO the LFS may have mentioned it in pass and you may not have heard or understood the FULL nature of going down the GFO path to "fixing " your algae issue. Each path one takes in this hobby will lead one thru many pitfalls and not everyone is equipped to deal with the issues that will come up. So I have learned to lead hobbyist down the path of most success with as few pitfalls as possible. I always lean on the natural and simplest path to success in the hobby. I used GFO when it was first came out and learned its good points and bad.

I have. It was one of my favorite tanks with a lot of neat life. I will say I did receive it second hand though [emoji4]

For me it doesn't make it the only way forward though. So on that I think I will respectfully agree to disagree.

But that's what makes this hobby so fun and addicting to me. There are so many ways to be successful in this hobby. While I'm sure there is an "easier path" to success, I'm sure it had its own unique pitfalls as well.

 

[Cscultho]

One must keep in mind after all the efforts that are taken to put clean dry rock into the DT, cooking it and cleaning it and storing it and reseeding it, all it take is for one coral or fish to completely cause chaos in a system. Once that happens you dont have enough of immunity or bacterial to help battle what you introduced with your new livestock. My experience has taught me to add as much live rock and substrate that is already seeded and loaded with a diverse bacteria load to help manage and hopefully combat most issues.

My current tank I tried the clean method and im suffering with dino's. what a nightmare. Im not suggesting a live system from the start would have prevented it but i do feel i would have been in a better position to prevent all the biological swings im experiencing.

just my $0.02.

 

[DumpInTheSump]

Something just hit me.......I'm having second thoughts on this INFLATABLE pool. I would think it would be too easy popping a hole in this thin vinyl pool with that jagged rock you're placing in there. I'd be extremely careful putting that rock in and taking it out.

Popping wouldn't be the only problem. Inflatable pools have air escape all the time, much like air mattresses, so it's only a matter of time before it deflates enough to spill out. Not to mention the rock can put holes in the bottom of the pool from weight alone. Then that acid or bleach is going to leak right out even if all the air stays where it should.

This is a terrible idea.