Disease ID?

[4FordFamily]

Honestly I would keep velvet out of your dt. Ime water changes are stressful enough during qt and hospital procedures and ttm is immensely stressful for the fish. At that stage, stress is a killer.

I would just treat with cupramine. I've turned my 180 "fowlr" in to one giant hospital tank with copper. I basically bought all the fish on my stocking list to keep them in it for 4-5 weeks of copper, testing daily, and doing water changes as needed per my ammonia badge (probably almost daily 32 gallon water changes).

I get my chevron tang and emperor angel today, and my queen angel, passer angel, and potters angel tomorrow. Next week my yellow belly hippo and Aussie tusk come. 4 weeks from then (at least) they will all be in this tank with cupramine.

After that time I will remove it with cuprasorb and carbon, wait about ten days and add the inverts back when copper is undetectable. It's worked great in the past. But no other ammonia test works with cupramine, you get false positives so that badge is key. All new additions to that tank (I don't plan any) will have to sit through 4-5 weeks of prazi and cupramine in my 55 g qt

 

[Triggerpuller]

The problem I have is, the Pink trigger will get killed by the Blue throat if he is around him in a weakened state. They are preds and preds eat the weak. The TTM I use a 5 gallon bucket with a heater and a powerhead and do 3 day water changes. I would not do the TTM on the pink trigger who is barely alive, he will stay by himself in the QT after a 100% water change. I would do it with the Blue throat who is showing zero signs of any illness. If I put the fish in a sterile environment and he is not currently infected. After 12 days of 4 water changes there should be zero possibility of the Ich. I am just not sure it works with Velvet. That is my main question is Velvet following the same cycle as Ich? Would the TTM method even work?

 

[Humblefish]

That is my main question is Velvet following the same cycle as Ich? Would the TTM method even work?

Velvet has a life cycle similar to ich, except it is accelerated. Ich trophonts remain on the fish for a minimum of 3 days, maximum of 7 days. With velvet, it can be just a matter of hours or a few days - dependent upon the strain. For this reason, TTM is not a reliable method for eradicating velvet. You need to use copper or CP for at least 2 weeks; perform a FW dip or formalin bath beforehand.

The following is the "velvet protocol" for a heavily infested fish: FW dip the fish for 3-5 minutes; some also suggest using Methylene Blue in conjunction with the dip. Following the FW dip, do a formalin bath for 30-45 mins. It is important to aerate heavily during the bath. After the bath, transfer the fish into a heavily aerated QT already pre-dosed with CP. The fish should remain in CP for at least 2 weeks; 4 weeks is better just in case the fish also has ich. This protocol, IMO & E, gives a fish with velvet the best chance for survival.

 

[Triggerpuller]

Velvet has a life cycle similar to ich, except it is accelerated. Ich trophonts remain on the fish for a minimum of 3 days, maximum of 7 days. With velvet, it can be just a matter of hours or a few days - dependent upon the strain. For this reason, TTM is not a reliable method for eradicating velvet. You need to use copper or CP for at least 2 weeks; perform a FW dip or formalin bath beforehand.
.

I am curious if at this point I can move my Blue throat with out infecting my DT. The Blue throat does not show signs of Marine velvet (although he did have minor ich on his tail, since cleared up) but had been in the same tank as the pink tail. The problem is he is eating the fins of the pink tail since he is so weak. To the point where he almost doesn't have a right dorsal fin left. I was going to use TTM to eliminate any organisms in the water with the Blue since he doesn't seem to have any attached to him currently. Would that work? The pink tail is going to stay in QT for at least 2 months until his fins grow back, if I put in my DT without full mobility his tank makes will literally eat him alive. My FOWLR DT is extremely aggressive , drop anything in there that doesn't have teeth or speed and it will be dead in minutes.

 

[Humblefish]

I am curious if at this point I can move my Blue throat with out infecting my DT. The Blue throat does not show signs of Marine velvet (although he did have minor ich on his tail, since cleared up) but had been in the same tank as the pink tail. The problem is he is eating the fins of the pink tail since he is so weak. To the point where he almost doesn't have a right dorsal fin left. I was going to use TTM to eliminate any organisms in the water with the Blue since he doesn't seem to have any attached to him currently. Would that work? The pink tail is going to stay in QT for at least 2 months until his fins grow back, if I put in my DT without full mobility his tank makes will literally eat him alive. My FOWLR DT is extremely aggressive , drop anything in there that doesn't have teeth or speed and it will be dead in minutes.

If the Pink Tail shared water with the Blue Throat, you cannot risk it. You must assume both are infected with velvet and need to be treated. Velvet is a devastating parasitic infestation, capable of wiping out your entire stock of fish in just a matter of days. It is not a "manageable" disease, as ich sometimes is.

 

[4FordFamily]

If the Pink Tail shared water with the Blue Throat, you cannot risk it. You must assume both are infected with velvet and need to be treated. Velvet is a devastating parasitic infestation, capable of wiping out your entire stock of fish in just a matter of days. It is not a "manageable" disease, as ich sometimes is.

100% concur

 

[Triggerpuller]

If the Pink Tail shared water with the Blue Throat, you cannot risk it. You must assume both are infected with velvet and need to be treated. Velvet is a devastating parasitic infestation, capable of wiping out your entire stock of fish in just a matter of days. It is not a "manageable" disease, as ich sometimes is.

So, Update: I have since placed my Blue Throat in my DT, I used a 24 hour TTM over 4 days. Used 2 gallons of water at a time in a bucket. He is not happy in the DT with no signs of anything. Eating well and figuring out his pecking order. The Pink Tail is doing great in my QT still. I have to ask how long can you treat with copper before it become to toxic? I assume eventually the copper will over take the fish's ability to filter the toxin out. He is recovering from the fin picking the blue throat did to him and also from the burn he received by resting against the heater for long periods of time. Honestly I believe him doing that was the only thing that saved him. He was pretty much dead for 2 days. Could not swim or keep himself upright. He wedged himself behind the heater and stayed there for a couple of days. I did not realize he was burning himself, but I should have known... Well luckly he is recovering and the burn is 1/3 the size it was and healing nicely. He still looks rough but has not gotten anything new. I have kept my copper level steady and received my copper tester last week. Funny enough, the dosage I gradually increased too past the recommended was right on the money where it needed to be. I took a gamble and it paid off. I hope in maybe 2 months to put my pink tail trigger in my DT. He is eating tons of food and I am dosing it with Zoe 3 times a week, to up his immune system.

 

[Humblefish]

I have to ask how long can you treat with copper before it become to toxic?

I personally only treat with it for 30 consecutive days max. However, I know some who treat with Cupramine for up to 72 days with no ill effects. It should be noted that the long-term health effects of exposing a fish to copper have never been fully studied (to my knowledge.)

 

[Triggerpuller]

I personally only treat with it for 30 consecutive days max. However, I know some who treat with Cupramine for up to 72 days with no ill effects. It should be noted that the long-term health effects of exposing a fish to copper have never been fully studied (to my knowledge.)

Thanks. I am just afraid to stop treatment and expose him again to Ich or Marine velvet (pretty sure he got both at one point), not sure he could take another round of either. I am also afraid of compromising his health by using copper. Will 30 days of copper be enough to kill both of those diseases?

 

[Triggerpuller]

One thing he has going for him is my 10 gallon QT cycled finally 4 days ago. I woke up and my ammonia alarm went from a steady green to yellow. And holding strong. I was thinking I needed to do a water change but now I have decided I am going to leave it alone.

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks. I am just afraid to stop treatment and expose him again to Ich or Marine velvet (pretty sure he got both at one point), not sure he could take another round of either. I am also afraid of compromising his health by using copper. Will 30 days of copper be enough to kill both of those diseases?

Yes. Velvet for sure. With ich, there is a small chance of failure if you happened to encounter a strain that took longer than 30 days to complete its life cycle. However, such strains are exceedingly rare. If you wanted to neutralize this threat completely, transfer the fish into another QT for observation after 30 days WITHOUT dropping the Cu in the original QT. The copper is "the shield" which protects the fish from reinfection.