feelin like a Newb: help me to balance my Carbonates

becon776 · Jan 20, 2021

Hey guys,
how goes it. I've been reefing a long time but for some reason balancing this two part has got me spinning.
reefer 450 prob ~90-100 gallons
recently added a CO2 scribber and my alk and Ca consumption went mayhem.
out of nowhere i noticed that my Ca was crazy high and nearing 500. and alkalinity was low. So I began piecemealing reefbuilder to get up and stopped dosing Ca.

Since then my Ca has lowered down currently 422. mg 1275. alk 7.89

Crazy because I am dosing 80ml of part 1 B-ionic and zero Ca to get here. I WANT to figure out how to get to a balanced and equal dos. I have ALL possible data available as am running a FULL APEX w Trident.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 20, 2021

If you are currently at 422. mg 1275. alk 7.89

Then I would use equal parts dosing of the B-ionic (if that is your preferred method, which is a good one) in an amount to maintain alk.

Just monitor calcium long term, not daily jiggering. Changes to calcium will be slow.

make sure you are actually dosing equal parts that are properly potent (not diluted on one and not the other, etc.). Dosing pumps are often mismatched.

becon776 · Jan 20, 2021

Dosing thru a DOS. I have not been able to get the "equal parts" figured out. I was a chem minor so embarrassing that this has got my head twisted.

There is an indirect relationship between Ca and Alk correct. Thus by me stopping Ca addition and increasing alk that *this* is what brought down my Ca quickly correct? (e.g. tank didn't really use) I would classify my tank as lightly stocked. But MAN when I added the co2 scrubber consumption.
As of an hour ago
alk 8.05
Ca 425
Mg 1274
crazy part is that I am dosing 80ml of bionic part 1 to maintain that alk. I havent dosed ANY Ca in last 24 and now it is holding steady at ~425.
NO water changes are occuring I took awc offline last week when all this wonkiness started occuring.
the only outlier i haven't mentioned is that I am sure there is a small Scopas tang carcass and possibly a sea hare somewhere buried under rock.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 20, 2021

The calcium rise (with overdose) and fall (with underdose) is slow. Much slower than for alkalinity.

Stick to equal parts dosing UNTIL calcium is getting too high (over 550 ppm) or too low (below 400 ppm.

Do not dose the calcium based on daily testing. There is too much noise.

That is why Bob Stark of ESV invented B-ionic decades ago: to minimize the roller coaster of over and under dosing of calcium.

blasterman · Jan 20, 2021

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Just monitor calcium long term, not daily jiggering. Changes to calcium will be slow.

This ^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^ This^^^^^^^This ^^^^^^^^^^^This

If I could do a Thanos snap and eliminate some things from the universe obsessive calcium monitoring would be one of them.

My heaviest consumption SPS tank recently went from 460 calcium to 350 in a week without dosing. I was doing exactly what Randy said and looking for a longer term daily average with less noise to know how much to daily dose, and that meant letting calcium fall over a longer period. Net change in SPS growth vs fussing with calcium trying to keep it 450 was '0', which goes along with my experience in that as long as calcium is kept within that 350-450 range there are other variables that vastly affect coral to a greater degree. As it is my alk utilization is still a bit out of whack and not quite 1:1 , so my doser is still collecting dust. I focus on alk, which does matter and make longer term calcium corrections.

Calcium and alk are *ONLY* consumed 1:1 if you have lots of fast growing stony corals and a perfectly stable tank biology. Therefore, you can only dose 1:1 if the before conditions exist, which for the majority of reefers it doesnt. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING will throw alk consumption into a tizy; pH changes, nutrient changes, lighting changes, solar flares, etc.

becon776 · Jan 20, 2021

yeah this all started with addition of CO2 scrubber. foe the past 2 yr my max pH was 8.0 now 8.16 is min. with 8.35 being mean.

becon776 · Jan 29, 2021

ok, so now i have been dosing 80ml per day of both alk and Ca, recently switched from Bionic to BRS. (COST) levels fell a bit am incresing to 100ml a&b

Seems like SO much for a reefer 450. I have only light of moderate stocking of sps/lps. i will say tha stylo is GOING CRAZY with growth lately.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 29, 2021

becon776 said:
ok, so now i have been dosing 80ml per day of both alk and Ca, recently switched from Bionic to BRS. (COST) levels fell a bit am incresing to 100ml a&b

Seems like SO much for a reefer 450. I have only light of moderate stocking of sps/lps. i will say tha stylo is GOING CRAZY with growth lately.

My DIY recipe (used by BRS) is less potent than ESV B-ionic original, so it is not surprising the amount needed rose.

becon776 · Feb 13, 2021

finally got it all balanced. its been 120ml alk and Ca over 24hrs and stays in balance and is also the s0ecs of my fresh salt walter (red sea blue bucket). seems like a lot considering i don't have THAT much coral.