Fighting or pairing? New to clowns help me out :D

[quik95lt1]

So I'm new to salt tanks, new to R2R as well got some great info here so far! What I have is a 47 gallon column with 50lbs LR and 40lbs live sand, well scaped for what I think with caves and hiding spots/tunnels. I have a snowflake ocellaris that has been in the tank since it cycled about 8 weeks ago who is around 1 1/4" long or so, quite peaceful fish from what I gather. So last Monday we decided to get him/her a partner, knowing the snowflake was alone in our tank for 7 weeks and alone in the tank at the LFS for a bit before we bought it I said why take a chance on it already being female and we bought a small juvie out of the LFS tank that was in with about 20 other clowns (this fish a conventional ocellaris). When we put the new one in they were best friends after about 3 hours, sleeping together, hanging out the whole deal. On Friday I noticed a bit of bickering maybe once or twice a day near feeding time but nothing major. Over the weekend they were mainly ok but this am they got in two pretty good scuffles during feeding and I noticed they were sleeping in different spots over the weekend and hanging out during the day in two opposite sides of the tank out of view from each other. Is this just part of the normal pairing thing or is there anything to worry about? I don't know how much "fighting" is fighting or is considered dominance fighting for sexing themselves? I do see both of the fish doing the sideways seizure motion which I assume is a good thing with pairing, but just looking for input. It was just odd to me that they went from great to having scuffles with each other after a week. I know two females will fight but I really cant see how the new one is a female, I highly doubt the first one is even a female at its size.........any info would be great!!

Thanks!!
Mike

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

First, clownfish are born and remain sexually blank until they are in a hierarchy. This means that they are neither male nor female. Once another fish, or small group of fish is present, one of the fish transitions to female and the other male. The more dominant fish will become a female. You will know that this has taken place, as one fish will become much larger than the other (the female). At 1 1/4" I am not sure that your clownfish are quite sexually mature, but they may be ready to establish a hierarchy.

It sounds to me like your fish are sorting out sexuality (sort of like a confused teen) and dominance within the tank. It's pretty normal, especially for clowns that were alone and have been suddenly presented with a partner. The sideways seizure thing (also called the clownfish wobble) is a sign of submission from one fish, so it sounds like they're on their way to becoming a pair.

 

[quik95lt1]

First, clownfish are born and remain sexually blank until they are in a hierarchy. This means that they are neither male nor female. Once another fish, or small group of fish is present, one of the fish transitions to female and the other male. The more dominant fish will become a female. You will know that this has taken place, as one fish will become much larger than the other (the female). At 1 1/4" I am not sure that your clownfish are quite sexually mature, but they may be ready to establish a hierarchy.

It sounds to me like your fish are sorting out sexuality (sort of like a confused teen) and dominance within the tank. It's pretty normal, especially for clowns that were alone and have been suddenly presented with a partner. The sideways seizure thing (also called the clownfish wobble) is a sign of submission from one fish, so it sounds like they're on their way to becoming a pair.

kind of what I figured from doing some googling lol was just looking for some agreement here which apparently I have found........my thing is I just don't know what level of aggression is ok and what is an issue.....there's no chasing around the tank at the moment, when the scuffle is over they each go their own way and relax

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

Usually clownfish aggression gets dangerous when you add clownfish of different species to a tank with one established species. For example, if you had an established ocellaris and added a percula. Then it's quite possible the ocellaris would pester the percula to death. Maroon clownfish are famous for aggression toward other species and their own species, and getting maroons to pair can be impossible, due to aggression. As long as the new clownfish isn't being bullied at all times, or pushed to far ends of the tank showing signs of stress (rapid breathing, hanging out at the surface, etc) then it's probably normal pairing. However, once the two establish a pair, I wouldn't add anymore clownfish or you may run into some serious aggression issues, even if they are the same species.

 

[quik95lt1]

Usually clownfish aggression gets dangerous when you add clownfish of different species to a tank with one established species. For example, if you had an established ocellaris and added a percula. Then it's quite possible the ocellaris would pester the percula to death. Maroon clownfish are famous for aggression toward other species and their own species, and getting maroons to pair can be impossible, due to aggression. As long as the new clownfish isn't being bullied at all times, or pushed to far ends of the tank showing signs of stress (rapid breathing, hanging out at the surface, etc) then it's probably normal pairing. However, once the two establish a pair, I wouldn't add anymore clownfish or you may run into some serious aggression issues, even if they are the same species.

ok sounds good, yes im well aware of the 1 or 2 only rule, I tried to do my homework quite well before I jumped into reefing and before buying the clowns, hopefully they can sort it out in short time!! thanks!!

 

[themcnertney]

I have male and female clowns. I had the same questions and concerns when they were young and going through this transition. After it was said and done, they calmed down some. I attempted to add two more clowns given I have a 220 gallon tank, didn't think this was an issue. The paired clowns really beat up the newer ones to the point of near death. In short there was a big difference I noticed from the sexual transition to the territory dispute we'll say.

 

[quik95lt1]

this morning they were at it a bit more aggressively, is this normal pairing behavior? looked a little rough to me? go to the last minute of the video

then 20 minutes later here they are hanging out under the same rock.......my concern earlier this am was it seemed like the new smaller one was pushing the older bigger one around and making him retreat......just really don't want to loose the first bigger one that seems to be taking the brunt of the aggression....

 

[themcnertney]

Seems normal in my opinion.

 

[quik95lt1]

ok ill watch them and give it more time then, to me looked aggressive but I guess not....I thought these guys were suppose to be peaceful and relaxing!!! lol the strange thing to me is the small one seems to be the aggressor and the small one is doing the twitching thing the bigger one seems to just not want any part of it

 

[themcnertney]

I thought these guys were suppose to be peaceful

Common misconception.

 

[quik95lt1]

im rooting for the bigger one now lol im hoping it decides its had enough and puts the little guy in his place

 

[ahiggins]

The video looks normal to me. Mine did that before I decided to keep a single one.
I posted at one point freaking out because they were locking mouths and spazzing out and other times they would just hang out side by side.
I definitely knew which was the male though, he would do the seizure move a lot.

 

[najer]

Looks normal to me too, my guess is the larger one will be the female when it stops chasing it's reflection and settles down.

 

[quik95lt1]

Looks normal to me too, my guess is the larger one will be the female when it stops chasing it's reflection and settles down.

I would imagine so but the strange thing is that was the first one in the tank, it was by itself for about 5-6 weeks before I added the smaller one, it was comfortable and stopped glass surfing after about a week of getting it but now its back to being not so comfortable I guess

The video looks normal to me. Mine did that before I decided to keep a single one.
I posted at one point freaking out because they were locking mouths and spazzing out and other times they would just hang out side by side.
I definitely knew which was the male though, he would do the seizure move a lot.

that's exactly what they are doing, sometimes they're at it then they're fine, my wife said they've been hanging out under a rock next to each other since this happened this morning and are perfectly fine now.....the smaller one does the seizure move a lot but the small one also seems to be the aggressor which is completely against any research ive done/read


at this point I'm trying to just learn what is happening here I guess they will be ok with each other once its all sorted out like you guys are saying

 

[najer]

She might be fighting her reflection to protect her handsome little man!

 

[quik95lt1]

just an update you guys seem to be right I came home and they slept within about 2 inches of each other all night.....and anytime the little one went to act up the big one now sacked up and stopped it before it even started and the little one gave the little seizure movement.........they even ate this am with no issues right next to each other......seems like they may be on their way!!!