Food sources with higher nitrates

[Reef of Fillory]

Hi all, I'm currently having issues with my system being too low of Nitrates [undetectable on the Salifert test].

I have dosed Nitrates in the past [when running into this same issue, after overstocking my tank w/ fish] but I'd like to find a solution that doesn't require me to test and dose nitrates since I made a few mistakes that ended very poorly by dosing nitrate before.

I am already feeding a lot [IMO].

Details: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/im-25-lagoon-sps-dominant-fillorys-reef.800034/page-2

25 gallon tank
One back compartment w/ Chaeto running 8 hours @ night
4 fish [pair of clowns, small regal and a 6line wrasse]
2 Cleaner shrimp
Feeding [autofeeder - flakes and pellets] twice per day
Feeding ~10ml daily of defrosted frozen food mix [with Reef Chili added] - fed via a baster into the water column
Dosing a "dash" of Red Sea Reef Energy most nights [Red Sea says no Phospate/Nitrate added here, but just for a fuller picture] - likely 5ml+/night

No algae in the tank [light/slight film on one spot on the back glass, and light dusting in a couple of low-flow spots in the sand].

Current Parameters:
Salinity: 1.025
ALK: 8.7
Calcium: 445
Nitrate: 0.00
Phosphate: 0.04
Magnesium: 1300

I'm noticing some white ends one of my corals [new to me, freshly cut when I received it]. It hasn't colored up much since I received it, and I'm not sure if the white tip is growth or recession. I've taken a couple of pictures of it so that I can keep track as time passes without having to "remember" what it looked like last week.

The white on the bottom is glue that I made a mess of [tried using a new glue which was a mistake].

You can also see on both of my green corals in this picture that they have white tips [I do think that these ones are growth and not recession].

 

[Jekyl]

Could reduce the size of the chaeto

 

[Pkunk35]

I believe BRS in a vid said frozen foods had higher impact on nitrate? Or at least ones where the protein to fat ratio was higher in favor of protein. I could be so wrong tho lol I would watch that video on nutrients they have

 

[Reef of Fillory]

Could reduce the size of the chaeto

I've been harvesting it down to about a gold ball size each weekend. Another alternative I've thought to do [and will do tonight] is to decrease the chaeto photoperiod by 2 hours and see if that helps. What I'm hoping doesn't happen is that Phosphate gets a bit higher than I want it to be at.

One of my concerns with just "adding" nitrate [via dosing for example] is that it's just going to fuel a decrease in phosphate [via chaeto] as the Nitrate becomes available for more growth.

 

[ReefReadyYouTube]

^^
Make sure you’re not battling any phosphate remover’s like cheato/GFO because even though you’re adding in a lot of nitrates and phosphates they’ll just be taken away by the Cheato or any other form of phosphate remover before coral can take advantage of the nutrients.

 

[Reef of Fillory]

I believe BRS in a vid said frozen foods had higher impact on nitrate? Or at least ones where the protein to fat ratio was higher in favor of protein. I could be so wrong tho lol I would watch that video on nutrients they have

That was my thought from the beginning, and I've always been a heavy handed feeder [because i've had low nutrients through no real intent of my own in the past]. When I put the current 10ml of food in, it's so much food floating around that it weirds me out to think about feeding even more at a time. It might be what I need to do though.

Does anyone have experience with phyto? Is that high in nitrates? I intend to get a clam here as soon as my supply guy gets them in. [supposed to be in the next few weeks].

 

[Reef of Fillory]

^^
Make sure you’re not battling any phosphate remover’s like cheato/GFO because even though you’re adding in a lot of nitrates and phosphates they’ll just be taken away by the Cheato or any other form of phosphate remover before coral can take advantage of the nutrients.

I used Phosphat-E when I first set up the tank, as the phosphate was leaching out of the rocks [was getting readings of 0.6-0.8 ish if I remember correctly].

Currently the only export methods I'm using are the chaeto, Chemipure Blue and my skimmer. I may be wrong, but I think the chemipure doesn't particularly work on Nitrates [intended for phosphates?]

 

[kev.2013]

That was my thought from the beginning, and I've always been a heavy handed feeder [because i've had low nutrients through no real intent of my own in the past]. When I put the current 10ml of food in, it's so much food floating around that it weirds me out to think about feeding even more at a time. It might be what I need to do though.

Does anyone have experience with phyto? Is that high in nitrates? I intend to get a clam here as soon as my supply guy gets them in. [supposed to be in the next few weeks].

IIRC that’s because the frozen foods don’t have as many preservatives in them.
Any reason why you don’t just dose nitrate? No guess work required on how much you increase

 

[jramy123]

I must have the opposite problem lol. I have a 20g, with chaeto, chemipure blue, charcoal, filter floss and i cant get my nitrate down or phosphate lower than .08. I feel I dont overfeed though lol

 

[Reef of Fillory]

IIRC that’s because the frozen foods don’t have as many preservatives in them.
Any reason why you don’t just dose nitrate? No guess work required on how much you increase

Had issues with dosing nitrate and phosphate in the past.

Low Nitrate - Dose nitrate
Nitrate rises - Phosphate drops
Dose Phosphate - algae, poor coloration, stressed corals, stunted growth etc.

That's my track record with this situation. Trying to approach it in a different way this time by adjusting my inputs. I'm running a CO2 scrubber off of the skimmer now, so I'm not willing to pull that offline. The Chemipure is something i've always used and I've actually reduced the size of packets that i've used in the past for this water volume, so i've already adjusted that down. The only other thing left that I can think of is to find some food that adds nitrate [which has the added benefit of fat, happy fish].

I am open to adding additional coral foods, or live foods that are easily managed [no growing necessary, etc.].
I could be swayed to add another fish, but I'm right on the edge of what i'm comfortable with, so that's pretty far down the list of options for me.

 

[Reef of Fillory]

I must have the opposite problem lol. I have a 20g, with chaeto, chemipure blue, charcoal, filter floss and i cant get my nitrate down or phosphate lower than .08. I feel I dont overfeed though lol

Isn't it strange? I feed the heck out of my tank and can't hold nutrients... Might have to add another two feedings to my autofeeder throughout the day [for a total of 4 dry feedings of flake/pellet and one feeding of frozen].

 

[Crashjack]

Does anyone have experience with phyto? Is that high in nitrates? I intend to get a clam here as soon as my supply guy gets them in. [supposed to be in the next few weeks].

I am experimenting with live phyto for similar reasons. I started this tank with all dry rock over 3 1/2 years ago, and it has always drifted toward low nutrients. Forget testing… no chaeto growth and almost nothing but precipitation on the glass, skimmer not skimming much, plus zoas and some lps not opening all the way, pretty much tells me that my nutrients are too low. My thought was, knowing that live phyto is a good food source for pods/plankton, some corals, filter feeders, etc., and combining that with the nitrate/phosphate included with it, why not try dosing live phyto as a simple way to boost nutrients, while also getting the feeding benefits from the phyto? Anyway, I’m less than 2 weeks in but am definitely seeing signs of more nutrients.

 

[Reef of Fillory]

I am experimenting with live phyto for similar reasons. I started this tank with all dry rock over 3 1/2 years ago, and it has always drifted toward low nutrients. Forget testing… no chaeto growth and almost nothing but precipitation on the glass, skimmer not skimming much, plus zoas and some lps not opening all the way, pretty much tells me that my nutrients are too low. My thought was, knowing that live phyto is a good food source for pods/plankton, some corals, filter feeders, etc., and combining that with the nitrate/phosphate included with it, why not try dosing live phyto as a simple way to boost nutrients, while also getting the feeding benefits from the phyto? Anyway, I’m less than 2 weeks in but am definitely seeing signs of more nutrients.

I did phyto once when I first got a new [small] clam but I didn't do it for long, and I wasn't testing at that time.

Maybe it's worth grabbing a bottle of pods and a bottle of phyto the next time I see some for sale.

 

[Crashjack]

I did phyto once when I first got a new [small] clam but I didn't do it for long, and I wasn't testing at that time.

Maybe it's worth grabbing a bottle of pods and a bottle of phyto the next time I see some for sale.

Worth a shot. I'm only broadcast feeding (no spot-feeding), and I'm dosing 3x/week. I also added a jar of pods at the start. Since I'm experimenting, I've stopped feeding all powdered coral foods.

 

[tbrown]

+1 for chaeto photoperiod. Like several people have noted, chaeto will get the nitrates out before your corals can.

 

[jarviz]

Isn't it strange? I feed the heck out of my tank and can't hold nutrients... Might have to add another two feedings to my autofeeder throughout the day [for a total of 4 dry feedings of flake/pellet and one feeding of frozen].

i can't get my nitrates up (near 0) but my phosphates are about 0.1. i run phosguard and have been trying to feed more but i think my red macro/corals are eating up most of the nitrates. I'm close throwing in another fish at this point but only have a 10gal lol

 

[Crashjack]

i can't get my nitrates up (near 0) but my phosphates are about 0.1. i run phosguard and have been trying to feed more but i think my red macro/corals are eating up most of the nitrates. I'm close throwing in another fish at this point but only have a 10gal lol

You can easily get your nitrate up with Seachem Flourish Nitrogen. There are other cheaper products you can get at Home Depot or wherever, but Seachem Flourish is so easy to use, reef safe, and you need so little that money shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Reef of Fillory]

You can easily get your nitrate up with Seachem Flourish Nitrogen. There are other cheaper products you can get at Home Depot or wherever, but Seachem Flourish is so easy to use, reef safe, and you need so little that money shouldn't be an issue.

In your experience, this is reef safe? Don't know why it wouldn't be, but it specifies for freshwater use on the bottle.

 

[threebuoys]

Protein is converted to nitrogen at a ratio of 16%. Nitrogen is converted to ammonia at a factor of 122%. And, of course ammonia is eventually converted into nitrate. Pellets and flakes have a much higher percentage of protein (35% - 48%) than frozen brine or mysis shrimp (7.6%) due largely to the high water content of the cubes. So gram per gram the dry food delivers more protein hence nitrogen. Raw fish, shrimp likewise are low in protein relative to weight of food for the same reason.

So, if you want to follow a natural process instead of dosing you need to look for protein in the 40%-50% range to have a larger impact.

 

[jarviz]

Protein is converted to nitrogen at a ratio of 16%. Nitrogen is converted to ammonia at a factor of 122%. And, of course ammonia is eventually converted into nitrate. Pellets and flakes have a much higher percentage of protein (35% - 48%) than frozen brine or mysis shrimp (7.6%) due largely to the high water content of the cubes. So gram per gram the dry food delivers more protein hence nitrogen. Raw fish, shrimp likewise are low in protein relative to weight of food for the same reason.

So, if you want to follow a natural process instead of dosing you need to look for protein in the 40%-50% range to have a larger impact.

I think the only problem with increased feeding is that Phosphates will shoot up as well no?