Hair algae on macro algae

[ClownWrangler]

Hi, I’m new to the forum. I’m currently investing in ornamental macroalgae for the main display tank area and running into the same problem that is an age-old problem with fresh water planted tanks. How do you grow the plants or macro algae, without growing the hair algae all over it? If not, what are the best snails for keeping it clean? I caught an Astraea snail cleaning a small section once, but it was too clumsy and bulky to navigate the complex branched structure of the algae. I have the same issue in both my tanks. Here is the info:

29 gallon one year old tank:
-30g Coralife hang on basket filter/skimmer
-Small Sponge filters attached to small power head
-Two Lominie p30 reef lights at 70% power, 12hr cycle
-2 ea. recently added 5 watt red/blue grow lights in mini hang-on refugium with chaeto (growing fast now and nitrates dropping)
-Approximately 30lbs of live rock
-20lbs of “Caribsea arag-alive” volcanic reef substrate
-Cinnamon clown pair
- 2 LTAs
-coral beauty
-3 small azure damsels
-3 peppermint shrimp
-5 or 6 Astraea snails
-Lots of copepods and fat happy bristle worms
-pH:8.1-8.2 stable
-Ammonia/nitrites: Less than readable
-Nitrates: 30-40ppm (starting to drop as chaeto in small hang on refugium bulks up)



20 gallon long “Nano” tank
-Spectra Aqua knight v2 reef light on 12hr ramped cycle, turned down to 60% to get RBTA out of hiding
-Hang on basket filter with good flow
-Sponge filters on intake
-20lb live rock (very established)
-20lb arag-alive substrate
-Ocellaris pair
-a couple verry healthy and happy RBTAs
-Flame Hawk fish
-one peppermint shrimp
-One emerald crab
-One tiny healthy Aiptasia that my peppermint shrimp ignores as he harasses my BTAs
-A few Astraea snails
-pH:8.1-8.2 stable
-Ammonia/nitrites: Less than readable
-Nitrates: < 10 ppm

 

[ClownWrangler]

I may have misidentified the algae as hair algae. Not sure what it is.

 

[Jax15]

Looks like GHA to me - if you have it elsewhere in your tank, it's going to be almost impossible to not have it on the macro as well. May have to manually remove it, while also solving the overall algae issue. Part of the problem is a lot of the 'algae eaters' like tangs, urchins, etc may also go after your macro. Maybe more emeralds, assuming the macro is strong enough for them to climb it and eat.

 

[ClownWrangler]

Looks like GHA to me - if you have it elsewhere in your tank, it's going to be almost impossible to not have it on the macro as well. May have to manually remove it, while also solving the overall algae issue. Part of the problem is a lot of the 'algae eaters' like tangs, urchins, etc may also go after your macro. Maybe more emeralds, assuming the macro is strong enough for them to climb it and eat.

Thanks. I have never seen the emerald grabs eat algae, but I cought one of the the evil little jerks pinching an LTAs tetacles once and he is currently under investigation as an Astraea snail murder suspect. I recently added lighting to my mini refugium do reduce nitrates in the 29 gallon and it seems to be working as the chaeto is bulking up, but if reducing nitrates is the only way to deal with nuisance algae, how can you grow macro algae that also requires nitrates?

 

[ClownWrangler]

Looks like GHA to me - if you have it elsewhere in your tank, it's going to be almost impossible to not have it on the macro as well. May have to manually remove it, while also solving the overall algae issue. Part of the problem is a lot of the 'algae eaters' like tangs, urchins, etc may also go after your macro. Maybe more emeralds, assuming the macro is strong enough for them to climb it and eat.

Are there different types of emerald crabs or crabs that can be mistaken for them? The one in my tank looks like an emerald crab but it's brown in color. It's hiding somewhere, so I cant get a picture right now.

 

[Reeffraff]

Emerald crabs IME don't eat much (if any hair algae). They seem to prefer other types of algae and meaty foods. The coloration of the crabs can be quite variable (brown to green). The larger males tend to go after meaty foods more than algae and in some cases this means corals. Best bet to beat GHA is manual removal and nutrient control. I use an algal turf scrubber which out competes most other forms of algae.

 

[ClownWrangler]

Emerald crabs IME don't eat much (if any hair algae). They seem to prefer other types of algae and meaty foods. The coloration of the crabs can be quite variable (brown to green). The larger males tend to go after meaty foods more than algae and in some cases this means corals. Best bet to beat GHA is manual removal and nutrient control. I use an algal turf scrubber which out competes most other forms of algae.

Thanks. I never heard of that before. I sort of have a make shift scrubber on my 29 gallon I made by wrapping an external breeding/fry box in reflective mylar and adding some regular LED red/blue grow lights and chaeto. They run 24/7 and the light is contained in the light box so it doesn’t bother the fish at night. I'm surprised at how fast the chaeto is growing with only 10watts of lighting. It also reduces pH swings at night. I'll just have to wait and see if I can somehow starve the GHA without starving the macro algae. If not, maybe an algae only tank is the only practical option for ornamental macros.

 

[Seabiscuit]

The chaeto will do a good job at reducing your nitrates once it grows to the size that coincides with the nitrate level you are targeting. Do you have a binder for phosphates which may also be a limiting growth factor as a nutrient? GFO or something like that?

 

[ClownWrangler]

I appreciate the response, but this thread got off track somehow. The methods for starving out algae all together such as GFO reactors are great for high tech coral only tanks, but this was intended to be a discussion about giving macro algae a competitive advantage over GHA, not starving out all algae which would defeat the purpose. It turns out, I didn’t give Astraea snails the credit they deserve. They are big and clumsy, but smaller ones do excellent job at cleaning the macro. You just have to place them where they are needed. I unleashed an army and introduced big portions of flame algae to take up slack They cleaned it up well enough that I could actually identify the red razor, which was a mystery algae I received in a mixed bag.

I also found these cool little guys at a frag shop. They don’t exactly have voracious appetites, but they are a worthy addition just for the cool factor. I believe they are Elysia clarki slugs, but they called them "lettuce nudibranch", which is incorrect, there’s no such thing. This one is cleaning the macro, but very slowly. I don’t know what the ID of this macro is.

 

[Subsea]

You can not starve the weeds to grow the desirables.

You have chosen the best method for a macro lagoon. Provide optimum conditions for desirables and discourage weeds with consumers like your small astrae snails and hand harvest and in some cases prune & remove.

I have noted tangs grazing on macro algae surface biofilms and not macro itself. Depends on macro and tang preferences.

Which macro are you considering?

Here is much information about macro biofilms.

[The seaweed surface provides a suitable substratum for the settlement of microorgansims and also secretes various organic substances that function as nutrients for multiplication of bacteria and the formation of microbial biofilms (Steinberg et al., 2002; Staufenberger et al., 2008; Singh, 2013). Microbial communities living on the seaweed surface are highly complex, dynamic and consist of a consortium of microorganisms including bacteria, fungi, diatoms, protozoa, spores and larvae of marine invertebrates (Lachnit et al., 2009, 2011; Goecke et al., 2010; Burke et al., 2011a, b). Among them, bacteria are ubiquitous and occur either on the seaweed surface or in the cytosol of living host cells (Herbaspirillum sp. in Caulerpa taxifolia) and determine different stages of the life cycle of eukaryotic organisms including macroalgae (Delbridge et al., 2004; Burke et al., 2011a; Singh et al., 2011a, b, c). Quorum sensing (QS) signalling molecules produced by Gram-negative bacterial strains determine zoospores settlement in Ulva species (Joint et al., 2002) and spores liberation in Acrochaetium (Weinberger et al., 2007) and Gracilaria species (Singh, 2013). Thallusin, a bacterial metabolite, and nitrogen-fixing bacteria associated with seaweeds have also been found to be responsible for induction of morphogenesis and growth in marine macroalgae, respectively (Chisholm et al., 1996; Matsuo et al., 2005; Singh et al., 2011b). Macroalgae (as a host), also known to be ecosystem engineers, play critical roles in structuring of intertidal communities (Jones et al., 1994). Some water-soluble monosaccharides such as rhamnose, xylose, glucose, mannose and galactose are part of algal polysaccharides that constitute part of the cell wall (Popper et al., 2011) and the rest storage material (Lahaye & Axelos, 1993; Michel et al., 2010a, b). These algal polysaccharides are a potential source of carbon and energy for numerous marine bacteria (Hehemann et al., 2012) that produce specific molecules, which in turn facilitate seaweed–bacterial associations (Steinberg et al., 2002; Lachnit et al., 2013). Therefore, these interactions between seaweeds and bacteria have fascinated and attracted the attention of many researchers worldwide.]

 

[Subsea]

Hi, I’m new to the forum. I’m currently investing in ornamental macroalgae for the main display tank area and running into the same problem that is an age-old problem with fresh water planted tanks. How do you grow the plants or macro algae, without growing the hair algae all over it? If not, what are the best snails for keeping it clean? I caught an Astraea snail cleaning a small section once, but it was too clumsy and bulky to navigate the complex branched structure of the algae. I have the same issue in both my tanks. Here is the info:

29 gallon one year old tank:
-30g Coralife hang on basket filter/skimmer
-Small Sponge filters attached to small power head
-Two Lominie p30 reef lights at 70% power, 12hr cycle
-2 ea. recently added 5 watt red/blue grow lights in mini hang-on refugium with chaeto (growing fast now and nitrates dropping)
-Approximately 30lbs of live rock

-20lbs of “Caribsea arag-alive” volcanic reef substrate
-Cinnamon clown pair
- 2 LTAs
-coral beauty
-3 small azure damsels
-3 peppermint shrimp
-5 or 6 Astraea snails
-Lots of copepods and fat happy bristle worms
-pH:8.1-8.2 stable
-Ammonia/nitrites: Less than readable
-Nitrates: 30-40ppm (starting to drop as chaeto in small hang on refugium bulks up)



20 gallon long “Nano” tank
-Spectra Aqua knight v2 reef light on 12hr ramped cycle, turned down to 60% to get RBTA out of hiding
-Hang on basket filter with good flow
-Sponge filters on intake
-20lb live rock (very established)
-20lb arag-alive substrate
-Ocellaris pair
-a couple verry healthy and happy RBTAs
-Flame Hawk fish
-one peppermint shrimp
-One emerald crab
-One tiny healthy Aiptasia that my peppermint shrimp ignores as he harasses my BTAs
-A few Astraea snails
-pH:8.1-8.2 stable
-Ammonia/nitrites: Less than readable
-Nitrates: < 10 ppm

Your Biofilter is powerful and your bioload is sufficient. I would get more astrae snails to help consume hair algae. Because hair algae is consortium of many things, which often means spores in the water, you might consider uv sterilizer.