How to manage sustainable, low phosphates but not zero.

[Fisherman Joe]

Hi all.

I had a Cyano bloom about 2 weeks ago. Turns out my nitrates and phosphates were both zero. I think I was over dosing NOO X and Vibrant cleaner. Silly me.

I dosed CyanoClean to kill the Cyano and dosed some Triton NO3 Beta.

I since turned off my GFO, tested each day, and it read - day 1: 0.0, day 2: 0.0, day 3: 1.3 ppm.

I can only presume the Cyano died and stopped up taking PO4 and lead to the spike. I put the GFO back on and a week later the PO4 is 0.0 and my nitrate is 10ppm.

This problem is an issue I face and I’m sure many do for a long time. I don’t keep up with my testing (Hanna checker) and it gets out of control.

I have a 600L (150g) tank with a refugium. I have an AI Fuge (red spectrum) light on 50% intensity for 12 hours on a reverse cycle.

How can I build a stable, low source of phosphate?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi all.

I had a Cyano bloom about 2 weeks ago. Turns out my nitrates and phosphates were both zero. I think I was over dosing NOO X and Vibrant cleaner. Silly me.

I dosed CyanoClean to kill the Cyano and dosed some Triton NO3 Beta.

I since turned off my GFO, tested each day, and it read - day 1: 0.0, day 2: 0.0, day 3: 1.3 ppm.

I can only presume the Cyano died and stopped up taking PO4 and lead to the spike. I put the GFO back on and a week later the PO4 is 0.0 and my nitrate is 10ppm.

This problem is an issue I face and I’m sure many do for a long time. I don’t keep up with my testing (Hanna checker) and it gets out of control.

I have a 600L (150g) tank with a refugium. I have an AI Fuge (red spectrum) light on 50% intensity for 12 hours on a reverse cycle.

How can I build a stable, low source of phosphate?

Careful titration of the amount of GFO used should work.

If it is too llow even without GFO, then dosing phosphate will work.

 

[Fisherman Joe]

Careful titration of the amount of GFO used should work.

If it is too llow even without GFO, then dosing phosphate will work.

Without GFO it shoots up.

How would you advise I calculate how much GFO to use?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Without GFO it shoots up.

How would you advise I calculate how much GFO to use?

I don't suggest calculating. I suggest starting low and slowly raising it, monitoring phosphate. Phosphate rising is not any sort of emergency. Some very fine aquaria have 1 ppm phosphate.

 

[csb123]

I personally quit GFO and switched to Lanathum chloride about 9 months ago. I have been very happy with it, and dose a small amount daily. It gives me very stable levels. I haven’t had to adjust the dose for months.

To figure out the dose, I tested with Hanna ULR checker daily for a month, adjusted the dose accordingly.

 

[Fisherman Joe]

I personally quit GFO and switched to Lanathum chloride about 9 months ago. I have been very happy with it, and dose a small amount daily. It gives me very stable levels. I haven’t had to adjust the dose for months.

To figure out the dose, I tested with Hanna ULR checker daily for a month, adjusted the dose accordingly.

I heard it can effect clams..

 

[Fisherman Joe]

I don't suggest calculating. I suggest starting low and slowly raising it, monitoring phosphate. Phosphate rising is not any sort of emergency. Some very fine aquaria have 1 ppm phosphate.

What would you do when you start getting Cyano?

I seem to have quite rapid blooms in my current tank, its less than a year old.

 

[legrunt]

I personally quit GFO and switched to Lanathum chloride about 9 months ago. I have been very happy with it, and dose a small amount daily. It gives me very stable levels. I haven’t had to adjust the dose for months.

To figure out the dose, I tested with Hanna ULR checker daily for a month, adjusted the dose accordingly.

How effectively are you able to control your phosphates with lanthanum alone? In my experience, I can only bring it down to around 0.1ppm. After that, it's effectiveness greatly diminishes. I'm trying to get to 0.05, but so far it's not easy. I'm running 17 cubes of Brightwell's po xport cubes for a tiny 16gallon tank now, and the best I'm getting is 0.07.

 

[csb123]

I heard it can effect clams..

I have a maxima clam that’s, well, happy as a clam.

I keep my phosphate at 0.03 to 0.08. For my 300 gallon mixed reef, I mix 2.4 mL of SeaClear in about 600 mL RO water, and slowly drip it into my skimmer daily. I’ve found if you drip it in too fast, the water gets cloudy. I have a purple and Tomini tang, and they are not affected.

 

[legrunt]

I keep my phosphate at 0.03 to 0.08. For my 300 gallon mixed reef, I mix 2.4 mL of SeaClear in about 600 mL RO water, and slowly drip it into my skimmer daily. I’ve found if you drip it in too fast, the water gets cloudy. I have a purple and Tomini tang, and they are not affected.

I see. And that's the only method of phos removal you are using?
What's the idea behind dripping it directly into the skimmer? I thought the normal method would be to dose it directly into the tank or sump, which is what I have been doing... The immediate removal of the flocculants? If the flocculants were to remain too long in the tank, would they "releach" some po4 back in?

 

[csb123]

I drip it in the skimmer to pick up the precipitate in the skimmate. This minimized water clouding. The lanathum phosphate is stable in aquarium conditions...doesn’t leach phosphate (Randy Holmes-Farley). Some is wasted, so the dose is a bit higher than adding it directly to the tank.

 

[csb123]

I also use diy NOPOX

 

[Greg P]

How can I build a stable, low source of phosphate?

You're in the same boat as many of us.
I've resigned myself to testing PO4 and NO3 every 2-3 days and am dosing Seachem liquids to keep the pair kinda balanced until my tank levels off.

I've only used Chemiclean twice in 8 years, and the second time was last month. As expected, my big 3 went a bit out of whack, as did NO3 and PO4.
In my total 115g system I've been dosing approx 6ml/2ml Phosphorus and Nitrogen.
As I only have 5 fish vs my previous 15, the liquid dosing is a must for now.

In your case, look into some supplemental dosing until things balance out.
When using the Seachem (as I already had it and know the dosing), 1 ml of Phos will raise 115g by about 0.03ppm, and 6.5ml of Nitrogen will raise 115g by about 1.0ppm

With your Nitrates near 10, you could completely remove the GFO and add a PO4 source.
As the PO4 and NH3 are consumed, you will then be able to adjust a dose of each to keep a balance.
If you find that you start getting high levels of both combined, then you could consider other methods to keep both low.

Essentially both will be consumed together and you just need to keep an eye on them.

 

[Greg P]

Maybe I should have asked;

What was you NO3 when your PO4 was 1.3?

 

[Daniel92481]

If your phosphates are below 0.1, I would stop GFO altogether. Watch the amount you are feeding, and slowly adjust. I tend to check my phosphates before I feed so I can tell if I overfed the last time around. Phosphates less than 0.25 are acceptable, however, I personally try to maintain between 0.03-0.05. Nitrates are another story. I keep mine above 0 and less than 5. Hope this helps!

 

[Fisherman Joe]

Thanks all.

Some very good advice. I think managing without GFO is the way forward, but I also think things quickly spiral out of control when they go wrong.

INTERSTINGLY my Triton test says my silicon is 400ug/l which is high.

Any advice other than water change, which I am doing?

I know GFO removes silicates, but my PO4 is 0.0 so I'm keen to avoid.

I have some Triton Phosphorus beta which I could dose. But I'm not sure how much in a 600L (150g) tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What would you do when you start getting Cyano?

I seem to have quite rapid blooms in my current tank, its less than a year old.

My recommendations for cyano include manual removal, increased flow, reduced organics (GAC, skimming, purigen, etc.) and reasonable control of nitrate and phosphate. But beating it by removal of nutrients from the bulk water alone often fails due to local availability of nutrients.

 

[Fisherman Joe]

My recommendations for cyano include manual removal, increased flow, reduced organics (GAC, skimming, purigen, etc.) and reasonable control of nitrate and phosphate. But beating it by removal of nutrients from the bulk water alone often fails due to local availability of nutrients.

What’s GAC and how does purigen work?

I now have zero phosphates and high silicon it seems.

 

[chema]

I am having good success at controlling phosphate (and I mean by that keeping levels between 0,07-0,15, which I find acceptable) by using a combined strategy:

1. Dosing phytoplancton (Synechoccus) every other day. I add 0,5 l in a 120 g tank at the maximum illumination hours (central hours of the day) while the skimmer os turned off.
2.Using GFO in reactor that works at low flow for 10 h per day. For that I use a pump connected to a timer in Profilux. In this way a load of approximately 0,5 l of GFO lasts 3-4 weeks.

 

[Fisherman Joe]

So, I have taken out all GFO and my phosphate is 0.0

I have been dosing Trion Phosphorus beta, at 0.1ml >1.0ml and testing after each, it did not change my phosphate from 0.0

Tonight I fed a cube of miss shrimp (frozen) and 2 hours after feeding my phosphate is 0.06 (Hanna checker)

I am going to test daily, possibly twice daily until I know what's needed to maintain this. I have a large refugium but I've always used GFO to maintain low Phosphates. I'm hoping to perhaps increase my lighting strength and encourage my algae to grow more.

Should I be dosing NOO X during this time too? My Nitrates are 5-10ppm (salifert kit) ?