Is this true or false? Copper leached into rocks.

[Miami Reef]

Someone told me this on a different forum saying that the rocks I have that was used to treat in copper will never get unbound and it will take “years and years” and it will eventually still leach out etc.


Here is the direct quote. Is this true or not?

“
I also spoke to a Organic Chemistry professor at UVM.

Based on my findings, the products mentioned here are effective is removing copper from the water effectively. However, the cooper must be in the water for it to be removed and all of the water must be passed through the filters. Just because you turn the system over 10 times per hour, does not mean that all of the water was filtered 10 times. In addition, the resin relies on copper to first leach out of whatever it is bonded to. And while the reducers can remove all the copper from the column water, there are no bases in thinking that all of the copper leaches out of whatever is bonded to within 6 months, as mentioned that it can take 6 months.

But there is good news. If you add copper to a system and then want the copper out, you can use copper pulling resins to remove any copper in the water column. But you have to actually keep the resin in the tank for practically an eternity. Unless electrolysis is used, you are not going to force the copper ions to leave the rock and substrate and you are relying on it leaching out. Using resin as a filter, it is a passive approach which relies on dilution. So the best you can do is once you can't detect it any more, keep leaving the resins in the system for as long as you can and at least for several years.

I hope this information can help people in the future make the right decisions. If you add copper to a reef system, yes you can remove most of it but it will be more than a simple PIA. You must be willing to commit in leaving the resin in for several years. Even a slow leach back to the water column, will eventually reach levels that corals and invertebrates will suffer. It takes parts per billion to be toxic to certain corals.”

 

[Miami Reef]

@Randy Holmes-Farley I really need your expertise on this. These statements above is really worrying me. I can’t possibly run cuprisorb for “several years” because that will completely deplete all my trace elements for the future corals. I just refuse to believe this is true especially since I know of someone who used copper and used cuprisorb for 2 weeks after it tests 0 and it’s now a reef tank.

 

[Miami Reef]

I feel like the claims above are grossly exaggerated and false just to worry me for no reason.

 

[dvgyfresh]

Run polyfilter, if it turns blue you kno it is an issue

 

[SlugSnorter]

just test for copper w and w out the copperabsorb

 

[GARRIGA]

No clue how long copper can remained bound. Same with phosphates. I guess one could test for copper periodically then run their preferred export method. End of day. If you used copper then likely have the test kits for it. I’m of the belief Hanna being the best and quick to deploy.

 

[Reefing102]

I actually asked a similar question not to long ago -

Is leaching still an issue?

Good morning, So back in the early 2000s it was a common opinion that if you dosed copper and had live rock, the live rock would absorb the copper and leach it back out so it could almost never be used again in a reef. Is this still the case or has this been debunked?

www.reef2reef.com

While Randy did not chime in, it seems the general consensus is running absorbing products will reduce the copper to reef sustainable levels.

It was not clarified how long one needed to run those products though

 

[N.Sreefer]

You could put the rocks in rodi water and test copper when it stops showing up take an acid and put some on a rock then after the acid stops reacting to the rock place it in a small amount of water in a different container and check for copper. If you dissolve a portion of the rock and get no copper reading you know there cant be much binded to the rock.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is true that copper binds to calcium carbonate surfaces and to organic matter (detritus, dead material on rocks, etc.).

I am not sure on the time frame for removal in low copper water, but if it was years and years then it wouldn't matter because it is not coming off to be toxic.

 

[GARRIGA]

...but if it was years and years then it wouldn't matter because it is not coming off to be toxic.

Does that imply that at some point it becomes permanently bonded?

 

[Miami Reef]

Does that imply that at some point it becomes permanently bonded?

I don’t think that’s what he was implying. He said he wasn’t sure, but worst case scenario if it did bond for years, it wouldn’t be dangerous.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Does that imply that at some point it becomes permanently bonded?

No, it implies that any that does take a very long time to be released will not be an issue because the amount in the water doesn't rise that much.

Think of it this way.

Water trickling over a dam spillway is no concern for flooding by folks down stream. But if the floodgates are opened and it gushes out rapidly, it is a much bigger concern.

The copper concentration in the bulk water would be quite analogous to the level of water in the creek below the dam. A little at a time can be OK wile a lot at once is not.

 

[GARRIGA]

No, it implies that any that does take a very long time to be released will not be an issue because the amount in the water doesn't rise that much.

Think of it this way.

Water trickling over a dam spillway is no concern for flooding by folks down stream. But if the floodgates are opened and it gushes out rapidly, it is a much bigger concern.

The copper concentration in the bulk water would be quite analogous to the level of water in the creek below the dam. A little at a time can be OK wile a lot at once is not.

I get that. Copper naturally exists in NSW. Just not at the levels used to treat ich, for example. Was hoping perhaps at some point it became permanently bonded. I know less about rocks than algaecide.

 

[Paul B]

When this hobby started we all ran copper continuously because we didn't know what we were doing. We could fix cars and fight in wars, but couldn't keep fish alive due to ich so we used copper. At first there was no liquid copper so we used pennies. (no, really!)

That was in the early 70s. Those rocks are still in my tank along with corals. We think of copper like toxic waste but it is a trace element in seawater and in us.

That tiny amount of copper bound up in rock, after a few years won't kill a fruit fly so don't worry about it. Go out to dinner and order a nice bottle of Pino Nior.

 

[Arego]

One of my lfs has a 1400g DT they took a 110lb rock out with nearly 150 rbtas and broke it in pieces and put about half the rock back after rinsing it in rodi and saltwater.. a week later nearly the entire tank crashed. They managed it very well all things considered as the sump is a 400g. This tank is probably 35yrs old as I'm 42 and it was there as a little guy.

They determined it was due to copper from several tests.. you guys are saying that couldn't have happened?

PS - I don't know which tests but I know one was a icp that indicated very high copper and that was it. The tank was beautiful.. tragic.

 

[GARRIGA]

One of my lfs has a 1400g DT they took a 110lb rock out with nearly 150 rbtas and broke it in pieces and put about half the rock back after rinsing it in rodi and saltwater.. a week later nearly the entire tank crashed. They managed it very well all things considered as the sump is a 400g. This tank is probably 35yrs old as I'm 42 and it was there as a little guy.

They determined it was due to copper from several tests.. you guys are saying that couldn't have happened?

PS - I don't know which tests but I know one was a icp that indicated very high copper and that was it. The tank was beautiful.. tragic.

Could it be that in breaking it up that exposed more surface area and copper trapped deep in the rock less likely to quickly leech out?

 

[Arego]

Yeah I have no clue. The rock was massive though a true centerpiece of old school genuine 30yr+ monster.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

They determined it was due to copper from several tests.. you guys are saying that couldn't have happened?

If you are saying it was from copper dosed 35 years ago, in a tank operating since then, that seems pretty unlikely.

How much copper did they detect? Detecting some does not mean toxicity.

All kinds of things can go wrong in such a scenario,

 

[Arego]

No clue, I don't know just going by what they told me in my brief inquiry as to why the tank was basically destroyed since I last came in.

 

[vtecintegra]

Sounds ridiculous. This copper and rock thing has been perpetuated for years. It's one of those things that makes someone sound knowledgable when they regurgitate it, but I've never seen anyone do a legit study to determine if a rock exposed to copper leaches any meaningful amount. Good one for BRS Investigates.