Little Predator Compatibility

[michellejy]

I will preface this by saying I am an obsessive planner, so I like to know what I am doing *well* in advance of doing it--meaning I will likely ask a lot of stupid questions since this is entirely new to me.

I have never had a tank with predators. The closest I have had to something scary was my Magnificent Foxface who, aside from being venomous, was peaceful to the point of being timid. However, I completely fell in love with the Red Bandtail Waspfish, which then led to me looking into other predator fish. Ideally, I would like to set up a tank of only small predators that can live together without any sort of '80s slasher movie style massacre.

This is a dream list, and I would appreciate any and all input, additional options, etc. Keeping in mind, of course, that I am new to this (although not new to saltwater) so it would be better to avoid species that are difficult to keep/feed.

I mainly would like to know which, if any, of these could share a tank, without that tank being enormous. Ideally, I would like to be in the 90 gallon or less range for tank size.

• Red Bandtail Waspfish: This is the one that started my obsession, but I am open to swapping this out for the Rooster Waspfish if that will work better with the sizes/types of others I am interested in
• Yellow Spot Scorpionfish
• Wartskin Angler: Open to other angler variants too, but I didn't know if these would work at all with venomous fish
• Antennata Lionfish
• Dwarf Zebra Lionfish
• Fu Manchu Lionfish
• Mombasa Lionfish
• Leaf Fish
• Ghoul: I assume these are ridiculously rare, but it is the coolest thing I have ever seen

I am also open to options not on this list, as long as they are small.

 

[mrsaltwaterguy]

I started my own predator tank about two months ago. I would consider adding a snowflake eel to your list, he is a little aggressive during feeding but other than that he is a model citizen. I also can't recommend a fuzzy dwarf enough, mine follows me around the tank like a puppy.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

The ones who would not belong in there would be the angler, Mombasae, Antennata.

My 100g had

• 2 Dwarf Fuzzy Lionfish
• Radiata Lionfish
• Sphex Lionfish
• Cockatoo Waspfish
• Fu Manchu Lionfish
• Caribbeus Scorpionfish

I'm missing someone.......

 

[Lionfish Lair]

There was a leaf and a Red Fin waspfish about to go in there too.....

What are your tank measurements? One thing to consider is where each intended fish has the propensity to hang out. Some hide under the sand, some strut their stuff on the sand, then there's the overhang huggers followed by the higher ups.

You going to like a guide I'll be "putting out" soon called "Nano Preds", which basically addresses what you are trying to do. It's the same thing I'm doing with my 210g.

 

[michellejy]

There was a leaf and a Red Fin waspfish about to go in there too.....

What are your tank measurements? One thing to consider is where each intended fish has the propensity to hang out. Some are hide under the sand, others are on the sand, then there's the overhang huggers followed by the higher ups.

You going to like a guide I'll be "putting out" soon called "Nano Preds", which basically addresses what you are trying to do. It's the same thing I'm doing with my 210g.

There are no tank measurements at this time. I'm essentially trying to figure out what will work together so I can design a system around them.

I understand why the angler won't work. Can you point me to info about the Mombasae or Antennata that would make them unsuitable as compared to the Dwarf Zebra, for example? (I trust your opinion. I'm just trying to get an understanding of the differences since they seem similar to a complete beginner.)

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Please NEVER feel you have to "justify" any questions. I welcome the conversation. We all have had different experiences too, so you will find different opinions, even amongst the best of friends. I'm sure Doug and I don't agree on everything, but I will tell you to 100% listen to his opinions as well (and other pred keepers too, I don't mean anyone in particular ). We're all just here to add our own 2 cents!

The Mombasae and the Antennata are very girthy. They could eat the smaller ones.

I'm waiting to see what the average size ends up being for the Bandtails. They are coming in pretty small, so captivity could stunt them before they get the opportunity to reach their max potential. My female redfin did not ever reach a size big enough where she could go into this tank. Only the male.

 

[michellejy]

I started my own predator tank about two months ago. I would consider adding a snowflake eel to your list, he is a little aggressive during feeding but other than that he is a model citizen. I also can't recommend a fuzzy dwarf enough, mine follows me around the tank like a puppy.

I think the snowflakes are amazing. I worry about the escape artist aspect though! I keep seeing horror stories about them being on the floor near the tank.

That's two fuzzy dwarf fans so far. I will look into them a bit more.

 

[michellejy]

Please NEVER feel you have to "justify" any questions. I welcome the conversation. We all have had different experiences too, so you will find different opinions, even amongst the best of friends. I'm sure Doug and I don't agree on everything, but I will tell you to 100% listen to his opinions as well (and other pred keepers too, I don't mean anyone in particular ). We're all just here to add our own 2 cents!

The Mombasae and the Antennata are very girthy. They could eat the smaller ones.

I'm waiting to see what the average size ends up being for the Bandtails. They are coming in pretty small, so captivity could stunt them before they get the opportunity to reach their max potential. My female redfin did not ever reach a size big enough where she could go into this tank. Only the male.

Okay, I think I could happily stick with the bandtail in my nano cube with my clowns since the consensus is that it would be safe. Would the Rooster work instead? My understanding is that they are larger than the bandtail.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Yes, a male Rooster will work, which is the same fish as what I was calling the Red fin above. The male was a good size and ruled the roost. Maybe others had their females grow larger? Who else has had a female?

 

[michellejy]

Yes, a male Rooster will work, which is the same fish as what I was calling the Red fin above. The male was a good size and ruled the roost. Maybe others had their females grow larger? Who else has had a female?

Oops, you said red fin, and I read bandtail. I have that little guy on the brain still. (ANOTHER one is slated for Diver's Den today.)

 

[michellejy]

Yes, a male Rooster will work, which is the same fish as what I was calling the Red fin above. The male was a good size and ruled the roost. Maybe others had their females grow larger? Who else has had a female?

Oh, I also just saw the Whiteface Waspfish in the list @rayn created. Are those uncommon?

 

[rayn]

@michellejy if you can pick this book up it is a invaluable tool on preds to me. Renee hooked me up with it.

This is a second book and actually has a lot of Renees' pics in it. It is smaller, but is good as well.


That list I worked on is way under listed. There are many more then I ever got into it. I need to go back and update it again, maybe with some help.

Remember to research full grown size. Lions are super cute when smaller to babies. That volitan that is only two inches gets huge fast, and has a mouth to match.

Dwarf lions, fuzzies, and zebras are good to have. Want a cool variety, find a red fuzzy and yellow fuzzy. Bright yellows are a bit rate and pricey though.

Pred tanks can get boring quick if you don't watch stocking too. Lions are preds and swim, but a lot of the wasps and other ground dwelling scorps don't swim much.

I remember having a 180 with a plumieri, Inimicus, mozambique, and two fuzzy a dwarfs. The wife called it my tank of rocks. Cause unless the lions were out, nothing was moving!

Also remember mouth size dictated all in the pred world. If they THINK it fits, they will try to eat it. My plumieri ate a fish that was almost two inches around.

Oh, and another warm welcome to the dark side!!!!

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Which are you calling a White face, Doug? I've heard the Wispy referred to as that as well..... the Paracentropogon longispinis?

Mine was identical to the Cockatoo, except for personality and the dorsal spine. It wasn't one of my favorites. Mine was hardy, though.

 

[rayn]

Which are you calling a White face, Doug? I've heard the Wispy referred to as that as well..... the Paracentropogon longispinis?
.

I had almost gotten out of the Latin name game, and you're going to suck me back in!!

Had to go look it up. The Richardsonichthys leucogaster.

 

[michellejy]

@michellejy if you can pick this book up it is a invaluable tool on preds to me. Renee hooked me up with it.

This is a second book and actually has a lot of Renees' pics in it. It is smaller, but is good as well.


That list I worked on is way under listed. There are many more then I ever got into it. I need to go back and update it again, maybe with some help.

Remember to research full grown size. Lions are super cute when smaller to babies. That volitan that is only two inches gets huge fast, and has a mouth to match.

Dwarf lions, fuzzies, and zebras are good to have. Want a cool variety, find a red fuzzy and yellow fuzzy. Bright yellows are a bit rate and pricey though.

Pred tanks can get boring quick if you don't watch stocking too. Lions are preds and swim, but a lot of the wasps and other ground dwelling scorps don't swim much.

I remember having a 180 with a plumieri, Inimicus, mozambique, and two fuzzy a dwarfs. The wife called it my tank of rocks. Cause unless the lions were out, nothing was moving!

Also remember mouth size dictated all in the pred world. If they THINK it fits, they will try to eat it. My plumieri ate a fish that was almost two inches around.

Oh, and another warm welcome to the dark side!!!!

I am almost positive that I have the first one somewhere from when I set up my first tank. I need to look for it since that was years ago. I will hunt down the second one. Thanks!

 

[Lionfish Lair]

I had almost gotten out of the Latin name game, and you're going to suck me back in!!

Do I need to remind you who my husband is?

 

[Lionfish Lair]

That's my favorite book.

 

[rayn]

Do I need to remind you who my husband is?

Nope. Been talking to him too. Apparently I'm a conversation out there at some point.

 

[FeliciaLynn]

Tons of great advice in here! I haven't had any of the other scorpionfish besides Lionfish, but I do have a fu manchu, a dwarf zebra, and an antennata. I think both a dwarf zebra and a fu manchu would be great choices. Just keep in mind that the fu manchu Lionfish are more shy and definitely not open water swimmers. They like to hop on the sand and spend most of their time hanging upside down from rock ledges, so they will have similar behavior to some of the other smaller scorpionfish.

My dwarf zebra is much more of an open water swimmer and is super personable! He knows I am the food provider and is very interactive when I'm near the tank. However, he was the hardest to get onto frozen food. It took me several months to wean him, but now he eats frozen like a champ and is my favorite fish!

My antennata is beautiful, but I agree with Renee that I wouldn't recommend one with small scorpionfish. A lot of those little scorpions are coming in TINY! My antennata is very small, but I know she'll grow to be big enough to eat those small 1-2" scorpions. Antennatas are medium bodied lions. I'd recommend sticking to any of the dwarf species and you should be fine!

A snowflake eel would also be a wonderful choice if you have a tank bigger than about 75 gallons or so. They do great in smaller tanks when they're small, but they will outgrow them, so only put them in a smaller tank if you have an upgrade planned. My snowflake is in a 40 breeder now, but will be moving to a much larger tank towards the end of this year. My snowflake eel is my second favorite fish! He has a ton of personality and is so much fun to watch and feed. I post videos of my tank a lot and he always steals the show. I get tons of comments that he's everyone's favorite. They are escape artists, but I don't think it's that hard to deal with. I just have a snug fitting screen lid on my tank. It's very light, so I just used sticky Velcro to attack it to the rim of my tank so the eel can't push it up. Other than that, I just have a lid on my overflow box and you want to make sure the teeth on your overflow box are narrow enough that the eel can't fit through. If they're too wide, you can just line them with enkamat or netting. The eels can get a bit crazy during feeding time, but he doesn't ever bother my Lionfish and they basically just ignore his antics He just doesn't see well and when he smells food, he just goes flailing about trying to find it. The Lionfish just move out of his way when he comes by. I spot feed each of my lions and the eel with tongs, so I make sure they all get their fair share of the food. Really not too bad to manage at all!

I don't know what size tank you're thinking, but just keep in mind that most of these small scorpions will be bottom dwellers or spend most of their times under rock ledges or in caves. They're fascinating and wonderful, but if you're wanting open water swimming fish, you may want to consider other tank mates for them. The great thing with the littler ones is that you don't have to get such huge fish to keep them from being food. Some of the stocky wrasses could be nice tank mates. Also tangs are a great choice if you have a bigger tank. People tend to think scorpionfish are aggressive because they're predators, but that's not really the case. They're mostly very chill, peaceful fish until they gulp down their prey whole. Then they go right back to chilling. If something is too big for them to consider prey. They'll leave it alone, so you can always house other fish in there that are big enough to not be prey. Just make sure the other fish aren't aggressive types that will pick at your scorpions.

 

[smoothdawg65]

do you need a protein skimmer for these kinds of tanks