Long term QT fish have developed an itch

[nldemo]

Hello,

After dealing with ich years and years ago, I have always QT'd my fish for at least 90 days. I have two in QT right now - a blue hippo tang and a harlequin tusk fish.

The blue hippo eats great whenever I feed the tank, but doesn't really go for the nori on the clip. I assume that's because it's just a baby and doesn't have much confidence in the water column. The harlequin has always been very personable and curious, with a decent appetite. I always have some trouble with this species being a finicky eater though.

Anyway, the blue tang started tell tale signs of itching. This is after having the fish for 90 days. However, I see no actual whitespots on either fish, and I know what to look for. So the first thing I tried was a freshwater dip, 5 minutes for each fish. No signs of flukes.

As a follow up, I tried treating with maracyn 1 & 2. The tank got real cloudy on day 2&3, but we're on day 6 now and ready for a water change. I was just observing this morning and saw the tusk now also itching.

This has me second guessing the Ich even though I still don't see any spots on either fish. What else could cause the itching like that? What would be the best treatment going forward? How soon should I even start another treatment after just finishing Maracyn? I can do copper or tank swap if required. I thought copper might be better here since I don't know exactly what I'm treating. Is there anything else that could cause that itching behavior?

I'm open to suggestions. I want to do what I can for the little guys.

thanks in advance
-danny

 

[Rubberfrog]

Is your quarantine just isolation and observation?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello,

After dealing with ich years and years ago, I have always QT'd my fish for at least 90 days. I have two in QT right now - a blue hippo tang and a harlequin tusk fish.

The blue hippo eats great whenever I feed the tank, but doesn't really go for the nori on the clip. I assume that's because it's just a baby and doesn't have much confidence in the water column. The harlequin has always been very personable and curious, with a decent appetite. I always have some trouble with this species being a finicky eater though.

Anyway, the blue tang started tell tale signs of itching. This is after having the fish for 90 days. However, I see no actual whitespots on either fish, and I know what to look for. So the first thing I tried was a freshwater dip, 5 minutes for each fish. No signs of flukes.

As a follow up, I tried treating with maracyn 1 & 2. The tank got real cloudy on day 2&3, but we're on day 6 now and ready for a water change. I was just observing this morning and saw the tusk now also itching.

This has me second guessing the Ich even though I still don't see any spots on either fish. What else could cause the itching like that? What would be the best treatment going forward? How soon should I even start another treatment after just finishing Maracyn? I can do copper or tank swap if required. I thought copper might be better here since I don't know exactly what I'm treating. Is there anything else that could cause that itching behavior?

I'm open to suggestions. I want to do what I can for the little guys.

thanks in advance
-danny

There is only one type of fluke large enough to be seen in dip water without a microscope, the others are too small to see.
If the fish don’t have spots or are not breathing fast, I’d skip the copper for now.
You might consider a Prazipro treatment, twice, about ten days apart with good aeration. That would help control flukes.
Small hepatus tangs are more carnivorous, so don’t worry about it not eating nori.
Jay

 

[nldemo]

Is your quarantine just isolation and observation?

Yes, with a minimum of 90 days or until I see something that looks treatable. I don't want to expose any healthy fish to something like copper that could stress them out or shorten their lifespans.

 

[nldemo]

There is only one type of fluke large enough to be seen in dip water without a microscope, the others are too small to see.
If the fish don’t have spots or are not breathing fast, I’d skip the copper for now.
You might consider a Prazipro treatment, twice, about ten days apart with good aeration. That would help control flukes.
Small hepatus tangs are more carnivorous, so don’t worry about it not eating nori.
Jay

Thanks Jay. This is the only tang i've ever not see go crazy for nori, so it was an interesting experience.

After I clear up the water I will strongly consider treating with prazi.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes, with a minimum of 90 days or until I see something that looks treatable. I don't want to expose any healthy fish to something like copper that could stress them out or shorten their lifespans.

A proper copper quarantine won’t do that! Observational quarantines are almost always a mistake. Take a look at the sticky section above, that’s where I store my current process.
Jay

 

[LeftyReefer]

Sounds like these fish need a copper treatment.
30 days in copper at therapeutic levels.

I strongly suggest using Copper Power or CopperSafe over Cupramine. I've had much better luck using chelated copper products vs cupramine. Cupramine seems way harsher on fish, at least on delicate fish like wrasses and some angels.

 

[nldemo]

A proper copper quarantine won’t do that! Observational quarantines are almost always a mistake. Take a look at the sticky section above, that’s where I store my current process.
Jay

Fair enough. I have seen opinions swing both ways about this. I'm not sure if copper is still considered poison to fish (even if it is just small amounts of poison), seems better to avoid it if possible. Either way, I'm willing to treat just hoping I didn't wait too long.

 

[nldemo]

I also ordered a Hannah Copper Checker (High Range), which is a nice new addition to the market since the last time I needed to use copper. Definitely will give me a boost in confidence.

I have a piece of rock and some ceramic bio balls in the QT tank (along with PVC). I'll be removing that as well, but wondering what I can replace it with besides more PVC.

 

[LeftyReefer]

PVC is great for QT tanks. You can use different sizes for different sized fish.
a nice assortment of pipes and elbows is all you need for a QT tank.
They are easy to remove/clean when necessary.

PVC is all I use in my QT tanks.

heater, HOB filter with Matrix media, and a pump/air stone, and plenty of pvc fittings.
Everything is easy to remove and clean if necessary.

 

[nldemo]

PVC is great for QT tanks. You can use different sizes for different sized fish.
a nice assortment of pipes and elbows is all you need for a QT tank.
They are easy to remove/clean when necessary.

PVC is all I use in my QT tanks.

heater, HOB filter with Matrix media, and a pump/air stone, and plenty of pvc fittings.
Everything is easy to remove and clean if necessary.

Thank you. I figured matrix media would have the same issues with absorbing, but i guess not

I already have the HOB filter (which usually just runs carbon filter pads) , but i can easily swap those out.

 

[nldemo]

Update. I haven't seen my tusk itching any more, but he is swimming near the surface a lot more than I'd expect him to. Also, saw some white somewhat stringy poop. I'm guessing that could be because of some internal parasite? Prazi is still the correct choice?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update. I haven't seen my tusk itching any more, but he is swimming near the surface a lot more than I'd expect him to. Also, saw some white somewhat stringy poop. I'm guessing that could be because of some internal parasite? Prazi is still the correct choice?

No - prazi is effective against metazoan parasites like worms. Those don’t cause white feces. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t have those parasites also, just that they don’t cause that symptom. White feces can be caused by dietary issues, bacteria, protozoans and possibly viral issues. Metronidazole is commonly used, as of the possible causes, protozoans are the worst. API General Cure has prazi and metro in it, so a lot of folks use that.
Jay

 

[nldemo]

No - prazi is effective against metazoan parasites like worms. Those don’t cause white feces. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t have those parasites also, just that they don’t cause that symptom. White feces can be caused by dietary issues, bacteria, protozoans and possibly viral issues. Metronidazole is commonly used, as of the possible causes, protozoans are the worst. API General Cure has prazi and metro in it, so a lot of folks use that.
Jay

hmm, General Cure is one i don't have. I looked up Metronidazole and found Seachem's Metroplex and Focus. That seems to be the fastest I could get. Good option?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

hmm, General Cure is one i don't have. I looked up Metronidazole and found Seachem's Metroplex and Focus. That seems to be the fastest I could get. Good option?

Not in focus though. It should have a dose for water, right?
Metro in food is very bitter. The dosing of metro in focus isn’t calculated correctly…if the fish eat it, the dose is too low.
Dosing in the water works because fish drink a pretty consistent amount of water and ingest the drug that way.
Jay

 

[Squidward]

Looks like a super long waste of time (90 days). I just do TTM 12 days with prazipro and get it over with.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Looks like a super long waste of time (90 days). I just do TTM 12 days with prazipro and get it over with.

Well, that might be a bit too extreme in the other diection (grin). I worry because TTM doesn’t control Amyloodinium and Neobenedenia really well. It also doesn’t allow the fish to settle in and adapt properly.

Jay

 

[nldemo]

TTM is great for getting rid of Ich... but that too takes some time. I've never heard of 12 days , unless you are swapping tanks every 12 days...

 

[nldemo]

Not in focus though. It should have a dose for water, right?
Metro in food is very bitter. The dosing of metro in focus isn’t calculated correctly…if the fish eat it, the dose is too low.
Dosing in the water works because fish drink a pretty consistent amount of water and ingest the drug that way.
Jay

Yes. I brought up the focus as it is listed as a companion drug for the food. but I don't need to get both

 

[Squidward]

TTM is great for getting rid of Ich... but that too takes some time. I've never heard of 12 days , unless you are swapping tanks every 12 days...

12 days is all it takes. I've been doing this qurantine since 2019. Works incredibly well.