Maintaining phosphates in a sea anemone aquarium

[Boss]

Hi, I could really use your guys support on helping me figure out a problem I'm having. I have a 15-year-old tank that has been amazing for years and all my levels are perfect except for one. Phosphates. I go through GFO like water. I've been trying to figure out what it is and some people have told me I have old tank syndrome and that my sand and rocks are leeching phosphates. However this never really added up for me because if that's the case it would have gotten steadily worse over the years and instead it's kind of spiked in the last year or two. Also, phosphates are a finite element and after certain point there should be no more to each. I'm going through one cup of GFO every week in my 125 gallon tank. See picture attached.

It just occurred to me what might be causing it and I wanted to bounce it off you guys. In my mixed reef LPS SPS tank, I have rose bubble tip and anemones that have been multiplying steadily over the last 2 years. They now consume about 1/4 of my tank on the left hand side. I'm wondering if it's possible that having too many anemies could cause my phosphate levels to rise up. I thought I heard they produce nitrates and phosphates, but then elsewhere I heard that they consume nitrates and phosphates. If they do produce phosphates and nitrates, I'm guessing my nitrates aren't a problem because I have a pretty robust refugium with the Kessel light over it. Meanwhile, two cups of my GFO tends to be exhausted in just 2 weeks.

Do you think it's possible that having too many rose bubble tip anemones could be creating excessive phosphates. Here's a picture of my tank so you can see how many anemies I have on the left hand side. There's many many small ones and they cover the rocks like a carpet.

Thank you so much for your help. This has been plaguing me and I'm about ready to tear down my whole tank and start over. Just trying to figure out what the source of these phosphates are. I sincerely appreciate any help you can provide. As you'll see in the picture, sadly many of my SPS's have died because of this. Sadly many of my SPS's have died because of this.

By the way, I do just feed my fish pellets exclusively but I'm very conservative with how much I feed them. I also have about a 3 to 4-in deep sand bed that is 10 to 15 years old. I use Nassarius snails to mix up the sand bed and I vacuumed it occasionally, however I can't vacuum the entire tank.

Thank you,
Mark

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Anemones are a sink for phosphate unless you are feeding them foods, in which case they can be a source just like a fish would be.

What phosphate level are you trying to maintain?

 

[PigFarmer]

Food for thought... have u tried feeding frozen? Only reason I ask is I was feeding frozen 2x per day and switched to the 2nd feeding of the day being pellets done by an auto feeder on a 250gal system. Whwn I did this my phosphates shot up quickly over the next month to the point I went back to frozen for the tanks 2nd feeding per day and they came back down.. this is the pellets I was using

 

[Boss]

Food for thought... have u tried feeding frozen? Only reason I ask is I was feeding frozen 2x per day and switched to the 2nd feeding of the day being pellets done by an auto feeder on a 250gal system. Whwn I did this my phosphates shot up quickly over the next month to the point I went back to frozen for the tanks 2nd feeding per day and they came back down.. this is the pellets I was using

Thanks. Good to know. I haven't tried frozen cuz I do prefer the automatic feeders. But maybe I should give that a try.

 

[Boss]

Anemones are a sink for phosphate unless you are feeding them foods, in which case they can be a source just like a fish would be.

What phosphate level are you trying to maintain?

I'm trying to maintain my phosphates at 0.03, however I tend to maintain 0.1 while my GFO is still good, but once it gets exhausted it starts climbing above 0.1. So that being said, I have a 125 gallon tank I run two cups of high capacity BRS GFO constantly, each cup in a BRS reactor, and my level still hang around 0.1. I can never seem to get them to go below that even when the GFO has yet to be exhausted. Meanwhile the GFO gets exhausted in about 2 to 3 weeks. The only things I can think could be causing this would be one of the following three things:

1) old tank syndrome, if that's a thing, where my 15-year-old 200 lb live rock and deep sand bed have absorbed a lot of phosphates. Is old tank syndrome a thing by the way? People have said that but I'm not sure if that's real. That doesn't add up to me since I feel like there's a finite amount of phosphates in the tank and if I'm sucking them out with the GFO constantly eventually they would be depleted. Unless there's something in the sand or a rock that is creating phosphates. Is this possible?

2) The sea anemones, since I have so many of them, but as you said I'm not feeding them anything specifically unless they're eating the pellets that float around the tank when they get dispensed. So based on your comment I'm assuming this isn't the case. But let me know if you think that could be the case because I could easily get rid of a lot of them.

3) The fact that I feed pellets exclusively. I have about 10+ mature fish in the tank and I have the auto feeders feed them three times a day and the amount that I feed each of the three times a day the fish are able to consume within a minute or two.

Let me know if you have any ideas what might be causing this and/or if you think one of the three things above could be the culprit.

Thank you so much for your help with this. Like I said I'm at my whit's end trying to figure this out. If it's old tank syndrome, then I guess I need to tear down the tank and restart. If it's the pellets, I could switch to frozen foods. I honestly haven't switched to frozen food so maybe that's the next best bet. But let me know if you think it could be old tank syndrome or the deep sand bed. I could always remove the sand and/or swap out the live rock. Or at least a lot of it. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I've been in the hobby for a long time and this has had me stumped for the last year it has me considering starting over after 15 years.

Thank you,
Mark

 

[PigFarmer]

Thanks. Good to know. I haven't tried frozen cuz I do prefer the automatic feeders. But maybe I should give that a try.

Yah the convience is nice but I feel the nutrient levels pay the price... Please LMK if ya do try the frozen and your phos does come down for ya.. I would be most interested to know if you see the same results I did.

 

[Jekyl]

Never saw mentioned so have to ask.. using RoDi water correct?

 

[pecan2phat]

The 15 year old deep sand bed is a high suspect if I were to take a guess.

 

[Boss]

Yah the convience is nice but I feel the nutrient levels pay the price... Please LMK if ya do try the frozen and your phos does come down for ya.. I would be most interested to know if you see the same results I did.

Thanks man. I've been thinking this maybe the culprit, so I need to try frozen foods, but given how little I feed them each day it's kind of surprising. I'm going to see what Randy has to say also.

What frozen foods would you recommend for a tank with mostly tangs and clowns and a couple damsels? There's so many different types of foods out there it's a bit of a headache trying to figure out what's a good option. So thanks for any advice

 

[Boss]

Never saw mentioned so have to ask.. using RoDi water correct?

Yes. My TDS are zero for all the water I add to the tank.

 

[PigFarmer]

Thanks man. I've been thinking this maybe the culprit, so I need to try frozen foods, but given how little I feed them each day it's kind of surprising. I'm going to see what Randy has to say also.

What frozen foods would you recommend for a tank with mostly tangs and clowns and a couple damsels? There's so many different types of foods out there it's a bit of a headache trying to figure out what's a good option. So thanks for any advice

Ok, wonderful. I was feeding around 2 teaspoons of the pellets once per day to a big system with lots of fish and corals when I tried the auto feeding for 2nd feeding of the day...

I prefer to feed LRS "reef frenzy" I find it to be good and clean and offers a variety of different foods for all types of reef critters

 

[Jekyl]

Have you agree with the frozen food suggestion. Your whole tank will thank you

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm trying to maintain my phosphates at 0.03, however I tend to maintain 0.1 while my GFO is still good, but once it gets exhausted it starts climbing above 0.1. So that being said, I have a 125 gallon tank I run two cups of high capacity BRS GFO constantly, each cup in a BRS reactor, and my level still hang around 0.1. I can never seem to get them to go below that even when the GFO has yet to be exhausted. Meanwhile the GFO gets exhausted in about 2 to 3 weeks. The only things I can think could be causing this would be one of the following three things:

1) old tank syndrome, if that's a thing, where my 15-year-old 200 lb live rock and deep sand bed have absorbed a lot of phosphates. Is old tank syndrome a thing by the way? People have said that but I'm not sure if that's real. That doesn't add up to me since I feel like there's a finite amount of phosphates in the tank and if I'm sucking them out with the GFO constantly eventually they would be depleted. Unless there's something in the sand or a rock that is creating phosphates. Is this possible?

2) The sea anemones, since I have so many of them, but as you said I'm not feeding them anything specifically unless they're eating the pellets that float around the tank when they get dispensed. So based on your comment I'm assuming this isn't the case. But let me know if you think that could be the case because I could easily get rid of a lot of them.

3) The fact that I feed pellets exclusively. I have about 10+ mature fish in the tank and I have the auto feeders feed them three times a day and the amount that I feed each of the three times a day the fish are able to consume within a minute or two.

Let me know if you have any ideas what might be causing this and/or if you think one of the three things above could be the culprit.

Thank you so much for your help with this. Like I said I'm at my whit's end trying to figure this out. If it's old tank syndrome, then I guess I need to tear down the tank and restart. If it's the pellets, I could switch to frozen foods. I honestly haven't switched to frozen food so maybe that's the next best bet. But let me know if you think it could be old tank syndrome or the deep sand bed. I could always remove the sand and/or swap out the live rock. Or at least a lot of it. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I've been in the hobby for a long time and this has had me stumped for the last year it has me considering starting over after 15 years.

Thank you,
Mark

Foods are by far the main external source of phosphate unless you are using raw tap water.

Once rock and sand gets phosphate bound to it, it can take a long time to remove to, but i expect you are just seeing food effects coupled with inadequate export (besides the GFO)..

 

[Boss]

Foods are by far the main external source of phosphate unless you are using raw tap water.

Once rock and sand gets phosphate bound to it, it can take a long time to remove to, but i expect you are just seeing food effects coupled with inadequate export (besides the GFO)..

Thanks Randy. Are there any other ways to export the phosphates other than GFO, water changes and refugium?

By the way, do you have any recommendation on food that won't raise my phosphates? Some are recommending frozen, so wondering if there's any brands that are better than others from a phosphate perspective.

 

[Boss]

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[Jekyl]

Thanks Randy. Are there any other ways to export the phosphates other than GFO, water changes and refugium?

By the way, do you have any recommendation on food that won't raise my phosphates? Some are recommending frozen, so wondering if there's any brands that are better than others from a phosphate perspective.

I use a few of the different frozen foods from "Rods", LRS is another popular one. Hikari. I have one blend from Rods that's for fish only, 2 different types of eggs, Hikari mysis and spirulina brine shrimp. Basically I try and keep as diverse of a menu as I can. I also feed a frozen herbivore blend as well as some nori.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks Randy. Are there any other ways to export the phosphates other than GFO, water changes and refugium?

By the way, do you have any recommendation on food that won't raise my phosphates? Some are recommending frozen, so wondering if there's any brands that are better than others from a phosphate perspective.

All foods must contain substantial phosphate, but some may contain more than others. especially fresh and frozen seafood from the grocery store as it may be used as a preservative.

I discuss phosphate in foods here:

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both

Foods are by far the most important source of phosphate in most aquariums. In considering whether sources of phosphate other than foods are important, one must carefully look to the actual amounts involved to determine whether other sources are even worth trying to minimize.

reefs.com

 

[Boss]

All foods must contain substantial phosphate, but some may contain more than others. especially fresh and frozen seafood from the grocery store as it may be used as a preservative.

I discuss phosphate in foods here:

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both

Foods are by far the most important source of phosphate in most aquariums. In considering whether sources of phosphate other than foods are important, one must carefully look to the actual amounts involved to determine whether other sources are even worth trying to minimize.

reefs.com

Thanks Randy. These articles are really helpful!