Mandarinfish diet... Will pellet and frozen food provide adequate nutrition?

[PotatoPig]

that’s about how long I’d think I have to wait for my pod population is big enough, now that I’m controlling tank parameters again.

What is your setup and how are you looking for pods?

The types these fish eat are tiny, you will never see them even looking on the glass unless you light them up in the dark. They’re not like tigger pods you’ll see bobbing around. Only way I see mine are either lighting up the glass from the side (with tank and room lights off) or lighting up the water in the sump shining a flashlight straight into through the glass and then looking down through the water.

 

[apb03]

This is one of my two Biotas, the female in the video attached eats frozen all the time and will come out when I feed the tank. That said, it's not going to jump into the water column, but rather pick at the small leftover particles that hit the rocks. Pellets I think are impractical because the other fish will eat them all first.

In my opinion, Biota Mandarins will eat prepared foods but you really can't directly feed them. I would just expect and assume they will mostly eat pods and let them sort it out on their own. I've never once worried about mine and as you can see, it's borderline obese.

 

[Alpha_and_Gec]

What is your setup and how are you looking for pods?

The types these fish eat are tiny, you will never see them even looking on the glass unless you light them up in the dark. They’re not like tigger pods you’ll see bobbing around. Only way I see mine are either lighting up the glass from the side (with tank and room lights off) or lighting up the water in the sump shining a flashlight straight into through the glass and then looking down through the water.

80 gal reef, when I do try to look for pods I pick up some rocks that aren't glued down and shake em around, see if I can get them to fall out. Most of the time I'm expecting them to fall out like snowflakes. Nowadays it's lucky if I can see one.

 

[Alpha_and_Gec]

This is one of my two Biotas, the female in the video attached eats frozen all the time and will come out when I feed the tank. That said, it's not going to jump into the water column, but rather pick at the small leftover particles that hit the rocks. Pellets I think are impractical because the other fish will eat them all first.

In my opinion, Biota Mandarins will eat prepared foods but you really can't directly feed them. I would just expect and assume they will mostly eat pods and let them sort it out on their own. I've never once worried about mine and as you can see, it's borderline obese.

Oh god, that is one fat mandarin XD

 

[PotatoPig]

80 gal reef, when I do try to look for pods I pick up some rocks that aren't glued down and shake em around, see if I can get them to fall out. Most of the time I'm expecting them to fall out like snowflakes. Nowadays it's lucky if I can see one.

Try looking on the glass with a flashlight - turn lights off so you’re in the dark, light the pane up from the side with the light pressed against the tank, and look at the glass straight on.

The pods these fish eat are minuscule - in the region of 1/256” to 1/128” fully grown. Even in a culture they’re almost impossible to see without spotlighting them from the side.

If you’re trying to get numbers up and have space then a refugium in the sump will also really help with the population.

 

[Alpha_and_Gec]

Try looking on the glass with a flashlight - turn lights off so you’re in the dark, light the pane up from the side with the light pressed against the tank, and look at the glass straight on.

The pods these fish eat are minuscule - in the region of 1/256” to 1/128” fully grown. Even in a culture they’re almost impossible to see without spotlighting them from the side.

If you’re trying to get numbers up and have space then a refugium in the sump will also really help with the population.

My fuge is unfortunately just too cramped to even work in now... got an "algae turf scrubber" that is nothing more than a well - lit basket over the intake, the rest is occupied by the skimmer, bags of carbon and some random bioballs that came out of the bioball section. Is there any specific rock or coral that can act as a sanctuary for pods? Beyond dieoffs due to parameter issues, predation is what I'm the most afraid of.

 

[musaabi]

My fuge is unfortunately just too cramped to even work in now... got an "algae turf scrubber" that is nothing more than a well - lit basket over the intake, the rest is occupied by the skimmer, bags of carbon and some random bioballs that came out of the bioball section. Is there any specific rock or coral that can act as a sanctuary for pods? Beyond dieoffs due to parameter issues, predation is what I'm the most afraid of.

Chaeto is really great for pods, you can throw some of that in there. Also any rock will do. The more crevices and nooks and crannies and all that the better as it gives them more places to hide and breed. If you get a regular rock that doesn’t have that then they can only live on the surface.

 

[Alpha_and_Gec]

Chaeto is really great for pods, you can throw some of that in there. Also any rock will do. The more crevices and nooks and crannies and all that the better as it gives them more places to hide and breed. If you get a regular rock that doesn’t have that then they can only live on the surface.

Will chaeto be smothered by filamentous algae? That's what happened to my cauerpa, that stuff grows too fast for me to save it.

 

[jhadaway]

I have one from ORA. I put him in a 5.5 pico tank to fatten him up and let him grow a little before going into my wb100.3. My pico was covered with pods. Rocks, sand and glass. Its been about a month and he has decimated the population. I have been ramping up my refugium and started dosing phyto to keep the pods happy in anticipation of bringing him home. Now that the pods are harder to find, he eats dki pellets like they recommend. Long story, short. Eats pods first, pellets if he cant find pods. I would say if you don't have a mature tank and a fuge cranking out pods i would wait. I waited almost 2 years. They eat all day!

 

[ti_lavender]

IMO pellets are not a proper food for any mandarin and I doubt they will live out their lifespan which seems to be about 10 years on them. They are sort of like a seahorse and need to eat constantly.
Here they are eating new born brine shrimp from a feeder that I invented. These fish are all spawning.

Paul, do your mandarins go for the worms that you feed? I've been culturing some grindal worms and want to see if the mandarin is happy with those.

 

[Biota_Marine]

I just found out that Biota will sell to individuals, and they produce captive bred mandarinfish, which is said to eat pellet and frozen foods and is independent from copepod and amphipod prey. My question is, will said pellet and frozen foods provide all the necessary nutrients for a mandarin to thrive? Do they need specific amino acids or vitamins from specific organisms that can't be found in frozen foods?

Mandarins that will eat frozen and pellet readily sounds too good to be true.

We're happy to help answer questions on our mandarins. A few have already chimed in but they key is to have the food available to them. We recommend especially the TDO B2 size pellets because around that 400 micron is perfect for them. Obviously, for every species live feeds are always more enticing so we find that customers with high pod or similar live prey in their aquarium detracts for a bit from their prepared diets but they eventually go after pellets and frozen feeds again.

At our Florida facility we typically have the luxury of growing them out a bit prior to shipping out to clients. We are feeding prepared diets in house daily. We feed 3-5x a day to ensure they're eating often and growing quickly. Our prepared diets are TDO B2, Hikari's frozen baby brine, Masstick, and we crush up some of the DKI pellets. We're always throwing other feeds at them to test things out but basically anything around that small sizing is perfect.

So yes, they can both survive and thrive on just prepared diets and don't require supplemental pod dosing or live feed hatching. Many of our customers send us videos of our pairs spawning within 6-12 months of being in their aquariums. They are small so be prepared to feed often and a varied diet.

 

[Reef By Steele]

that’s about how long I’d think I have to wait for my pod population is big enough, now that I’m controlling tank parameters again.

Hey @musaabi brought me in, but my personal account @HankstankXXL750.

I have a Red Sea XL525 with a pink spotted sand sifting goby, target mandarin, Ruby red dragonet Tank is about 2 years old but reset 1 year ago when I got my S1000. In it I have a psychedelic mandarin, two Ruby red dragonets, diamond goby, yellow watchman with pistol, weavers goby with pistol and three orange anthias.

Mandarins are one of my must haves. My daughter named the psychedelic rainbow wish, and my wife named the target paisley (she won’t let me call it happy sperm lol). So yes not only do I love them but there is a high price to be paid if I let them die.

As for your fear of them reverting g to hunting, both of mine are wild caught and both eat frozen foods. But even then, it isn’t enough unless you want to feed multiple times a day. But it doesn’t take three years to build up a pod population.

A few main keys to success here. First hit your tank with a really strong batch introduced at least an hour after lights out. Introduce the right pods. You say you do t see them swarm out from under rocks, Tisbes and Apocyclops would be very hard to see that way as they are really small, I have trouble seeing them in my bottles when I ship lol. Tigriopus are great for visual, but not really your mainstay for mandarins. Tisbe and Apos will dwell in the rock and not free swim as much so don’t get taken out by your fish that are not
finicky hunters. Next dose nutrient rich phytoplankton to strengthen and establish your colonies (preferably live) Pavlova, Isochrysis, Thalassiosira Weissflogii really load up the nutrition in your pods.
Then hit them again maybe once a month with a smaller dose of pods 2 or 3 times and you should be set unless you do something that causes a mass extinction event in the colonies.

I started culturing as I was following the wrasse lovers thread and wanted solid food source for my qt, one thing led to another and now I’m a Reef2Reef sponsor. I dose my tanks weekly, but only because I use any extra that we harvest that doesn’t get sold as all my products are harvested the day before it day of shipping even though they can last for several weeks in the fridge.

I have multiple large cultures so I don’t harvest from any one too often, then verify with a Sedgewick-Rafter Slide to ensure a minimum quantity in each batch.

So if you want a Mandarin, look me up (or someone else if you have a trusted source) and you can keep a mandarin successfully. I got my psychedelic within 3 or 4 months maximum of setting up the 525. And I hit my tanks hard with pods two or three times about 2 months apart, and I knew nothing at the time about phyto.
Now I’m fairly sure I could go 6 months to a year without adding if I only had one or two pods specific diners.

 

[Paul B]

Paul, do your mandarins go for the worms that you feed? I've been culturing some grindal worms and want to see if the mandarin is happy with those.

Yes, they love worms. But a mandarin really needs an aged tank with natural pods that grow naturally in large numbers. I normally don't feed my mandarins but they continually spawn and live about 8 or 10 years.

He is eating worms here in an enclosure to keep out other fish. I only built this for an experiment. My mandarins find enough food on their own.

 

[Paul B]

Paul, do your mandarins go for the worms that you feed? I've been culturing some grindal worms and want to see if the mandarin is happy with those.

Yes, they love worms. But a mandarin really needs an aged tank with natural pods that grow naturally in large numbers. I normally don't feed my mandarins but they continually spawn and live about 8 or 10 years.

He is eating worms here in an enclosure to keep out other fish. I only built this for an experiment. My mandarins find enough food on their own.