month old tank. Clown lives, but new fish dont... Sorry its long

jtate21

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From what I'm seeing is that your tank did not finish it's cycle.
Ammonia and nitrite should read 0
The water is toxic to your fish.

You may want to try seachem stability to save the clown.
Or bring it back to the LFS if they will take it.

If not there is a very good chance it will die as well.

Good luck with everything
I hope it works out for you.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Those tests balanced pretty well. It’s been long enough for them to streamline

I never was worried about a Fritz cycle, those are testless cycles anyway/ Fritz works even without testing. At the start of the setup you had mentioned some differences between kits but that’s streamlined now and thank you for posting
 
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everpresentnoob

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Can we have a pic of the tank also?
Here is a pic of the tank this morning at 0400 before I left for work with the white lights on full blast. and no I dont leave the lights on all the time, they are scheduled to come on at 3pm and off at 8. the brownish green growth on the rocks is new as of saturday. it is also on the sand bed behind the rocks some and vacuums up from there easily, but I have to scrub it off the rocks.

Couldnt find the clown this morning...
 

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Dom

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yes. its been running for just about a month now.

Be patient.

I understand that you want to enjoy a beautiful tank. But reef keeping isn't like a new tv that you pull out of the box, plug in and enjoy.

Think of your reef tank as a garden. A garden needs to be nurtured, allowing it to grow into the beautiful colors and aromatic blends we appreciate about a garden.

Just continue to be patient.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Benthic growths on top of the rocks, this cycle has been done a while now, as we know Fritz cycled to be. That brownish growth up top confirms your cycle has been done a while now.

Study disease, if you begin stocking unprepped fish the fish disease forum here shows the outcome in a few months

Cycle done, disease planning hasn’t been completed yet
 
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everpresentnoob

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so should I set up a QT now and try dropping the clown in it, if I can find him that is? leave the tank fallow for a while? Im searching threads on QT setups and procedures. I have a spare 10g tank and I can buy a HOB for it. Thinking I should have done this to begin with... if I can find my clown Ill move him once its setup. should I do anything to the main tank? other than let it keep running?
 

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So I just looked online at the color chart for the API kit... Im thinking I totally mispoke earlier. with the API test the vial turned green. so around 2.0, Maybe a touch darker... when i got the hanna checker its first test read .09, then .08 then .06 and .02... Meanwhile every time I tested with the Hanna I also tested with API and it continuously gave the same green to dark green results, around 2.0.

Does that make any more sense? thankfully the calculator on my phone saves the history when I use it so I can go back and see what the results were from doing the math on the hanna checker....
Sounds to me like your tank wasnt cycled... now Clownfish are hardy which explains why its probably been able to shrug off what could still be moderately high Ammonia levels and why the others died (did you acclimate them?).

The brown algae suggests to me its close to completion, have you been testing salinity (do you top off with fresh water)? Edit - The salinity was low, could be a potential cause of the problem.

Also do you have the capacity to set up a smaller QT tank? Adding fish on the basis of the "LFS" telling you they quarantine is a recipe for disaster IMO. I have a small 10 gallon which i use to cycle in fish (i'm new to the hobby) and which ill convert to a frag tank down the line.
 
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everpresentnoob

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For acclimation I floated them for about 30 mins, then poured the bags through a strainer and put only the fish in my DT. Now I'm reading about drip acclimation and such...

I bought the original 90 gallons of water from my LFS, and it was 1.02 sg. when I topped off due to evaporation I used water from my Ro/di system, and did not mix salt into it. Salinity of the tank has been stable. for water changes I have been mixing Red Sea Coral Pro salt into 5 gallon buckets of RO/DI water, siphoning water out of the DT or sump and replacing with the mixed water. Tank salinity has been stable. But now I'm reading that I should have been shooting for a higher salinity, somewhere 1.025ish... yesterday I did a 10 gallon water change with higher salinity in it so my tank is now up to 1.022.

I have an older 10 gallon tank in the garage. I think Im gonna stop at the LFS and get a HOB filter today and set up a QT. I should have done this before, but with my freshwater I've never needed to. guess you don't need to until you need to. but knowing where that line is is the trick. Currently reading as researching setting up a QT.

one question I have about my main tank, if its sits empty, or fallow, how do I keep it from crashing? do I ghost feed it like while cycling?

Also I keep reading about dissolved oxygen in the tank. the tank originally came with a durso style drain, and is drilled for two bulkheads in a corner weir. I built a 1" PVC return line from my pump in the sump to the rear right corner, and then converted the weir on the left to use both bulkheads for drain in a herbie setup, 3/4 for the main 1" for the emergency. the tank runs silent no bubbles now anywhere. I have two probably oversized powerheads in it and the surface has strong ripples, but its just ripples. is that enough surface agitation for gas exchange? or should I put an air stone in somewhere to assist this? When I bought the tank setup from a guy it came with a reef octo Classic 150int skimmer, but when I turn it on no matter how I have the gate valve adjusted it just bubbles and bubbles then fills the cup with really wet bubbles and floods the cup within about 10 minutes. I figured this would be a good way to ensure the tank was oxygenated, but im not sure it works well...

I have so many questions right now, and feel horrible about how this has started. I've been keeping various freshwater tanks for the past 20 years or so and yea, there have been fish losses occasionally, but I've never run into this. Heck I have my little Axolotl, James Pond, and he's been with me for 5 years so far doing great in a planted tank...
 

Dom

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so should I set up a QT now and try dropping the clown in it, if I can find him that is? leave the tank fallow for a while? Im searching threads on QT setups and procedures. I have a spare 10g tank and I can buy a HOB for it. Thinking I should have done this to begin with... if I can find my clown Ill move him once its setup. should I do anything to the main tank? other than let it keep running?

To Quarantine or not to quarantine... that is the question. And I am learning that there are merits to both.

I have a 40 gallon with HOB and heater which I use as a QT. For a clownfish, a 10 gallon tank is fine. But if ever you intend to go with larger fish, a larger QT may be necessary. I wouldn't QT a Tang or Foxface in a 10 gallon.

My QT is observational, treating only when signs of disease present. And yes, I understand that waiting for disease to show before treating may be too late. But it is a chance I am willing to take.

@Paul B does not QT his fish and still enjoys great success in the hobby.

Research both approaches.
 
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everpresentnoob

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To Quarantine or not to quarantine... that is the question.

Research both approaches.
Oh I am!! Lol. I have two laptops on my desk right now with probably 10 to 15 tabs open on each...

the good thing is I wasnt happy with the way my aquascape turned out. Seems Ill have more time to redo it and make it better now.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Paul B uses ocean water and ocean rocks and the system is 50 years old, opposite in every way to any tank on the site. Before using his way, build the reef his way. Dry rock starts are opposite and don't work the same way. Qt is tricky, it's not just pvc pipes in an empty tank, that's scary for fish

One thing to read from Paul is how he sets up his quarantine systems, he's used them. Soft lighting, terra cotta pots some plastic plants, substrate that isn't calcareous is good quarantine, not scary
 

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For acclimation I floated them for about 30 mins, then poured the bags through a strainer and put only the fish in my DT. Now I'm reading about drip acclimation and such...

I bought the original 90 gallons of water from my LFS, and it was 1.02 sg. when I topped off due to evaporation I used water from my Ro/di system, and did not mix salt into it. Salinity of the tank has been stable. for water changes I have been mixing Red Sea Coral Pro salt into 5 gallon buckets of RO/DI water, siphoning water out of the DT or sump and replacing with the mixed water. Tank salinity has been stable. But now I'm reading that I should have been shooting for a higher salinity, somewhere 1.025ish... yesterday I did a 10 gallon water change with higher salinity in it so my tank is now up to 1.022.

I have an older 10 gallon tank in the garage. I think Im gonna stop at the LFS and get a HOB filter today and set up a QT. I should have done this before, but with my freshwater I've never needed to. guess you don't need to until you need to. but knowing where that line is is the trick. Currently reading as researching setting up a QT.

one question I have about my main tank, if its sits empty, or fallow, how do I keep it from crashing? do I ghost feed it like while cycling?

Also I keep reading about dissolved oxygen in the tank. the tank originally came with a durso style drain, and is drilled for two bulkheads in a corner weir. I built a 1" PVC return line from my pump in the sump to the rear right corner, and then converted the weir on the left to use both bulkheads for drain in a herbie setup, 3/4 for the main 1" for the emergency. the tank runs silent no bubbles now anywhere. I have two probably oversized powerheads in it and the surface has strong ripples, but its just ripples. is that enough surface agitation for gas exchange? or should I put an air stone in somewhere to assist this? When I bought the tank setup from a guy it came with a reef octo Classic 150int skimmer, but when I turn it on no matter how I have the gate valve adjusted it just bubbles and bubbles then fills the cup with really wet bubbles and floods the cup within about 10 minutes. I figured this would be a good way to ensure the tank was oxygenated, but im not sure it works well...

I have so many questions right now, and feel horrible about how this has started. I've been keeping various freshwater tanks for the past 20 years or so and yea, there have been fish losses occasionally, but I've never run into this. Heck I have my little Axolotl, James Pond, and he's been with me for 5 years so far doing great in a planted tank...
Your only crime here is going too fast (which many of us have been guilty of), your taking the right steps now. Patience and research is really the key for success.

The tank can be oxygenated in 2 ways, one is with a protein skimmer, and the other is by pointing the powerhead at the water surface for agitation. You should always have agitation on the surface though (wether you have a skimmer or not). If the surface is flat, you will quickly see a buildup of organics and dust and debris, that stuff cuts the gas exchange, and also filters the light.
 

Dom

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Oh I am!! Lol. I have two laptops on my desk right now with probably 10 to 15 tabs open on each...

the good thing is I wasnt happy with the way my aquascape turned out. Seems Ill have more time to redo it and make it better now.

At this point, I feel you can make any changes you like. Doing so won't disrupt anything.
 

Glowurm

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For acclimation I floated them for about 30 mins, then poured the bags through a strainer and put only the fish in my DT. Now I'm reading about drip acclimation and such...

I bought the original 90 gallons of water from my LFS, and it was 1.02 sg. when I topped off due to evaporation I used water from my Ro/di system, and did not mix salt into it. Salinity of the tank has been stable. for water changes I have been mixing Red Sea Coral Pro salt into 5 gallon buckets of RO/DI water, siphoning water out of the DT or sump and replacing with the mixed water. Tank salinity has been stable. But now I'm reading that I should have been shooting for a higher salinity, somewhere 1.025ish... yesterday I did a 10 gallon water change with higher salinity in it so my tank is now up to 1.022.

I have an older 10 gallon tank in the garage. I think Im gonna stop at the LFS and get a HOB filter today and set up a QT. I should have done this before, but with my freshwater I've never needed to. guess you don't need to until you need to. but knowing where that line is is the trick. Currently reading as researching setting up a QT.

one question I have about my main tank, if its sits empty, or fallow, how do I keep it from crashing? do I ghost feed it like while cycling?

Also I keep reading about dissolved oxygen in the tank. the tank originally came with a durso style drain, and is drilled for two bulkheads in a corner weir. I built a 1" PVC return line from my pump in the sump to the rear right corner, and then converted the weir on the left to use both bulkheads for drain in a herbie setup, 3/4 for the main 1" for the emergency. the tank runs silent no bubbles now anywhere. I have two probably oversized powerheads in it and the surface has strong ripples, but its just ripples. is that enough surface agitation for gas exchange? or should I put an air stone in somewhere to assist this? When I bought the tank setup from a guy it came with a reef octo Classic 150int skimmer, but when I turn it on no matter how I have the gate valve adjusted it just bubbles and bubbles then fills the cup with really wet bubbles and floods the cup within about 10 minutes. I figured this would be a good way to ensure the tank was oxygenated, but im not sure it works well...

I have so many questions right now, and feel horrible about how this has started. I've been keeping various freshwater tanks for the past 20 years or so and yea, there have been fish losses occasionally, but I've never run into this. Heck I have my little Axolotl, James Pond, and he's been with me for 5 years so far doing great in a planted tank...
Your salinity was on the low side but dont rush the change, drastic changes in any ecosystem tend to lead to disasters so bring that salinity up slowly.

Quarantine is optional, but being relatively new to this hobby myself i wanted to ensure i wasn't introducing problems which i lack the knowledge of experience to resolve down the line. I can always convert it to a small frag tank etc down the line, besides the cost for setting it up was minimal.

In regards to your skimmer it may just need some running time, it took me maybe 3/4 days to both dial it in but also to allow for the biofilme to build up inside the skimmer. You might also want to check how deep it should be sitting, in other words how high the water line needs to be, i ended up raising mine with a simple plastic box (i will replace this with something more permanent down the line).

I dont think lack of oxygen is the issue, if you have churn in the sump and ripples on the surface of the water i think your probably good.
 

TX_REEF

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it looks like you're getting plenty of advice on cycle, chemistry and acclimation, but I would like to chime in on nutrition. Clowns are omnivores, and frozen brine shrimp are mostly water. Be sure to get a quality pellet or flake food to use as the foundation of your clown's (and any other fish, for the most part) diet.

I recommend:

Ocean Nutrition formula one flakes: https://amzn.to/3QPwgWH
Hikari marine pellets: https://amzn.to/3wVefzw

Good luck, keep us updated!
 
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everpresentnoob

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it looks like you're getting plenty of advice on cycle, chemistry and acclimation, but I would like to chime in on nutrition. Clowns are omnivores, and frozen brine shrimp are mostly water. Be sure to get a quality pellet or flake food to use as the foundation of your clown's (and any other fish, for the most part) diet.

I recommend:

Ocean Nutrition formula one flakes: https://amzn.to/3QPwgWH
Hikari marine pellets: https://amzn.to/3wVefzw

Good luck, keep us updated!
I did not know this. once again yay LFS and me not researching first. I was told brine and sometimes Mysis is what to feed the little guy. Turns out I have everything already to run a 10 gallon QT, so once I get some Copper power and Parazi-whatever-the-heck-it-is, ill try restarting... well after I spend a bit of time making sure my aquascape is how I like it...
 

TX_REEF

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I did not know this. once again yay LFS and me not researching first. I was told brine and sometimes Mysis is what to feed the little guy. Turns out I have everything already to run a 10 gallon QT, so once I get some Copper power and Parazi-whatever-the-heck-it-is, ill try restarting... well after I spend a bit of time making sure my aquascape is how I like it...
brine shrimp mare a great treat, so I'm not saying don't feed them that, it just shouldn't be the bulk of the diet.
 
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everpresentnoob

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well i took the rocks apart in my DT and found my little clown still alive. got him in a QT now an tried 4 different types of food. he nibbled at some of the marine flakes I have. and he is swimming laps in his new digs now. Still doesn't seem to be having breathing issues or anything... Ill see how hes doing when i go to work in the morning at 0400.
 

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