Am i through the cycle?

[noob reefer24]

Tank has been up and running for 4 weeks. I did a fish in cycle (unpopular, I know) and dosed dr tims to start. Went 3 weeks with 0 ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Daily feeding with the 2 clowns. Noticed my ammonia spiked last Sunday to a 1.0 per the salifert and api tests. Nitrites also spiked to 5.0ppm+ and nitrates to 5-10. Stopped feeding for a day until ammonia zeroed out. Back to daily feeding and ammonia stays at 0 but nitrites are 5.0pp.+ and nitrates are still in thr 5-10 range. Am I cycled since ammonia Is staying at 0?

Params as of this morning and tests used to get #'s.

1.025 sg
78F
7.3 dkh (hanna tester)
.07 phosphate (hanna tester
490 calcium (hanna tester)

0 ammonia (api and salifert)
5.0ppm+ nitrites (api)- could be higher, api only tests to 5.
5-10 nitrates (api and salifert)
7.8-8.0 ph (api)

Updated info: Live stock- 2 clowns, watchman goby, CUC, 2 emeralds, pistol shrimp and fire shrimp.

Just went through the "ugly phase". But diatoms have mostly(90%) cleared as of this morning

 

[scrappy35]

In my experience when you are cycled you very rarely ever see nitrites as the process fast. If nitrites are accurate that is a high level.

 

[brandon429]

Nitrite no longer factors in reef tank cycling, don’t own the kit.

You can’t fail to be cycled due to the first two sentences in the opening descrip

(This is new cycling science it’s not common practice, yet)

 

[noob reefer24]

Nitrite no longer factors in reef tank cycling, don’t own the kit.

You can’t fail to be cycled due to the first two sentences in the opening descrip

(This is new cycling science it’s not common practice, yet)

So you think I'm good to go at this point?

 

[brandon429]

To audit the rules of updated cycling science, search out these key terms with the sites search function: Randy Holmes Farley (top reef chemist) nitrite

Try and find how many thousands of times he’s said it’s no longer required to be tested. (2006-present)

The sole reason nitrite is still factored despite Randy’s advice is because a bottle bac seller, Dr Tim, made nitrite issues a key factor in sales-based cycling, which isn’t legit cycling. It’s sales based, you buy things that give you the same timing for completion that not buying those things would give, and that’s a ripoff.

Reefers aren’t trying to rip off each other, to factor nitrite is a staple in aquarium work, but with advances in chemistry / articles from 2006/ we know nitrite tests are for freshwater work and not reef tanks.

 

[brandon429]

Not only are you done three weeks ago, here’s a thread of forty pages of *solely* time-based cycle calls.

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

Not testing based, that’s a testless cycling thread. We get those results by waiting a mere ten days after bottle bac with no other factor measured. To run forty pages of testless cycles is updated cycling science. Fish disease is your risk, independent from any cycling methods. You are about 3x past the completion date for your particular setup. With Fritz, you were done in 48 hours, it’s why your fish didn’t die and they were not harmed because Fritz works day one, 48 hours to deposit onto surfaces but it can work quickly after addition even before deposition completes.

 

[TheReefPA]

Depends on your definition of cycled. Can you clear ammonia? Probably. Full “nitrogen cycle”? Nope.

 

[brandon429]

Nitrite bears no factor at all for the searchable reasons listed. He’s cycled unless you have a forty page thread showing uncycled jobs past day ten, with losses vs perfect reef outcomes


The only part of the nitrogen cycle you care about Nreefer24 is ammonia, because the other two always always handle themselves and are not factored in marine cycling any longer.

Your warning needs to be about skipping disease preps, not a cycle warning.

 

[brandon429]

The specific action here based on the giant thread is to never run an ammonia test on this reef ever again, nor nitrite.

If you feel the need to run those tests again, it means old cycling science has seated in permanently and disease work will never get done, so losses begin in 8 months



But

If you stop the testing because you were done three weeks ago, like our thread shows, and begin a focused study on fallow and quarantine in the disease forum, you can head off what will be here by December

 

[PotatoPig]

In terms of processing ammonia, you’re cycled. I’d suggest proceeding slowly with adding new livestock, but your system is clearly processing ammonia.

For Nitrates - these aren’t meaningfully processed by bacteria in reef tanks. The bacterial process for this is slow at the best of times and requires anaerobic conditions that few people have in their systems. These are removed almost entirely by water changes and when they are consumed by algae and corals.

Just went through the "ugly phase". But diatoms have mostly(90%) cleared as of this morning

At 4 weeks in you’ve probably got plenty left. Expect a few waves of different types of algae as your system stabilizes and your microbiome develops.

 

[Garf]

Tank has been up and running for 4 weeks. I did a fish in cycle (unpopular, I know) and dosed dr tims to start. Went 3 weeks with 0 ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Daily feeding with the 2 clowns. Noticed my ammonia spiked last Sunday to a 1.0 per the salifert and api tests. Nitrites also spiked to 5.0ppm+ and nitrates to 5-10. Stopped feeding for a day until ammonia zeroed out. Back to daily feeding and ammonia stays at 0 but nitrites are 5.0pp.+ and nitrates are still in thr 5-10 range. Am I cycled since ammonia Is staying at 0?

Params as of this morning and tests used to get #'s.

1.025 sg
78F
7.3 dkh (hanna tester)
.07 phosphate (hanna tester
490 calcium (hanna tester)

0 ammonia (api and salifert)
5.0ppm+ nitrites (api)- could be higher, api only tests to 5.
5-10 nitrates (api and salifert)
7.8-8.0 ph (api)

Updated info: Live stock- 2 clowns, watchman goby, CUC, 2 emeralds, pistol shrimp and fire shrimp.

Just went through the "ugly phase". But diatoms have mostly(90%) cleared as of this morning

You can't usually test for nitrates if you have a detectable nitrite reading.

 

[noob reefer24]

Nitrite bears no factor at all for the searchable reasons listed. He’s cycled unless you have a forty page thread showing uncycled jobs past day ten, with losses vs perfect reef outcomes


The only part of the nitrogen cycle you care about Nreefer24 is ammonia, because the other two always always handle themselves and are not factored in marine cycling any longer.

Your warning needs to be about skipping disease preps, not a cycle warning.

I appreciate your feedback and wealth of information. To be fair, I quarantined my fish before putting them in my DT for the cycle. Now I understand the exposure to ammonia during the cycle but other than the recent spike to 1.0ppm, water params have been great. Any ideas of what could have caused said ammonia spike? I had been at 0 for 3 weeks prior and the spike passed quickly. Feeding routine did not change prior to the spike.

 

[brandon429]

But you can see i do testless cycles because small spikes never need to be tested for or cared about

To answer that means you're thinking it's important to know it's details and it's not

You're using the type of test kit I railed on in that whole page 1, this isn't a seneye, I don't believe you had a real spike

One small problem with doing fish first read this below, you're about to undo their quarantine prep by adding years worth of non quarantined corals and inverts from pet stores. That's the same as buying not quarantined fish

Majority of Fish Died Overnight

Well, I’m currently in pretty much tears. Overnight my Achilles, yellow tang, Wantanabe Angel, flame angel, fire shrimp and others all died. They were all breathing heavily last night and I sat there knowing there was nothing I could do at 11:00 PM on such short notice and it may be the last...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

If you plan on fallowing all additions then it's a good plan


The reason I’m evasive about about ammonia is because concern over it can’t apply here in any way, I’m trained to never look back on ammonia after a closed cycle, don’t run the test for many beneficial reasons.

But if I had to testify in the reef court of law about it, it’s any feeding event or any rock move can cause that

Not because it’s a real spike / hence my stated doubt

But because organics and other factors not ammonia trip those kits up, which is why I train reefers to not use tests but to use timelines, then never look back.

People who move a rock across their tank report 1-6 ppm on various cheap test kits, non seneyes, and moving rock in a reef never ever ever releases ammonia.

 

[noob reefer24]

If you plan on fallowing all additions then it's a good plan


The reason I’m evasive about about ammonia is because concern over it can’t apply here in any way, I’m trained to never look back on ammonia after a closed cycle, don’t run the test for many beneficial reasons.

But if I had to testify in the reef court of law about it, it’s any feeding event or any rock move can cause that

Not because it’s a real spike / hence my stated doubt

But because organics and other factors not ammonia trip those kits up, which is why I train reefers to not use tests but to use timelines, then never look back.

People who move a rock across their tank report 1-6 ppm on various cheap test kits, non seneyes, and moving rock in a reef never ever ever releases ammonia.

When would you recommend I do a water change?

 

[brandon429]

How ever you'd change it when you're reefing, you're past cycling. You've been reefing for three weeks.

There's nothing poisonous in the water, nothing harmful

U change water based on how clean or dirty you want to reef. Sps setups go cleaner so you'd have already been changing water.

Systems prone to early tank invasions, the uglies, are better off with clean running/ more water change % of your choosing and more frequently than a hands off macro algae low flow deep sandbed system. That's less water changes so plants have nutrients to thrive.

 

[brandon429]

What i wrote for this particular setup is the same rationale I'm applying to your tank so I thought it was a relevant link

Understanding nitrosoma bacteria and the cycle.

i'm trying to understand what these bacteria are and where they come from. I understand nitrosomes are involved in the nitrification process and convert a Nh4 or Nh3 to N02. I have a new cycling tank, and my ammonia has been fluctuating, but my N02 has also been fluctuating but rather high...

www.reef2reef.com

That's a thread on how updated cycling science works in reef tank cycling, and why it's at odds with old methods and measure.