How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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If you are concerned about knowing the start date for your reef aquarium post here and we will name the date you can begin carrying a bioload plus its feed plus its generated waste. The whole point of the thread is that you think your cycle is stuck because some cheap test kits said so, and it isn't. If you will devote 20 mins reading to the four threads listed in this post, you will never fail to cycle a reef tank again and that means without testing for anything, we don't use cheap test kits here like other cycle threads.


cycles don't stall like we've been told. if you are posting a single set of api or Red Sea readings ranging from ammonia to nitrate, you're in direct violation of the thread already lol


aquarists post and fixate on total ammonia readings, but we only care about nh3 in reefing. The ammonia you are concerned about is ten times lower than you were about to state here before intercept, see your test kits instructions for nh3 conversion—new cycling rules are already at work reducing concern. your cycle is not stuck, reef tank cycles do not stall.

edit single pics of ammonia and nitrite out of your opening pic, but still introduce your tank and we will unstick any claimed stuck cycle quickly and without you having to buy anything.


Don’t test for nitrite in reef tank cycles

the procedural rules have been changed. Don’t expect your lfs to agree here, they aren’t aware of the science updates and are busy selling extra bottle bac to remedy nitrite testing issues using the old rule which has been replaced.

when I say replaced, that means in 2020 we started listening to Randy’s fifteen year old article. Our hobby ignored his chemistry advice to ignore nitrite, and now we will listen and actually test the claims here.

Reason we don't want to see nitrite posted here, omit it from your pics:

Nitrite cannot harm your cycling reef, its chemically neutral, we don’t want to see nitrite data here as it’s the #2 cause of false assumed stuck cycles and its a neutral param. even if positive, its not harming your cycle or animals. Nitrite is a freshwater risk, not a marine aquarium high salinity risk and as MNFish1 pointed out per Randy’s article, special quarantine systems that may get very low salinity intervals can manage nitrite to track toxicity limits. Randy’s article shows us that in display reefs it’s not a concern so don’t concern over it.

The presence of nitrite cannot harm your inverts, your early corals or your fish or your cycle, don’t post nitrite data here as you’re using a seven dollar kit to measure nitrite and we don’t even believe the report is accurate anyway

Read this nitrite article





chances are you don't own two different kits, one digital, to proof your stated readings; nitrite from API or red sea didn't just become the world's most accurate data source because there aren't any other sampling competitors, the nitrite reading is still subject to the same handling/interpretation issues as famous .25 ammonia readings.

nitrite is chemically neutral for us in all presentations here.


if there are special interesting cases, I'll ask to see your nitrite readings (such as if you own a hanna digital nitrite meter)

mostly they'll mislead us, don't post any nitrite measurements.



Actual reef tanks as case studies for the rest of the thread

———————————-First example using a reef tank for unsticking a cycle————————->


Do you see how his API kit said he had eight parts per million ammonia below, not cycled, but after one water change the aquarium was instantly ready and then turned into a reef?

read below the first example, every cycle umpire in existence would say the tank showing 8 ppm ammonia is stalled and not ready, but it wasn’t true. Was his bottle bac dead or nonfunctional?
Read the thread to see how only one water change instantly made the tank ready, it was not stalled.



*every cycle umpire from every reef board in the world would say that cycle isn’t ready, wait weeks longer. What did one full water change accomplish, did he have to wait weeks? Stalled cycles are a false notion


consider this quarantine cycle challenge below

One water change and it’s carrying bioload just fine plus feed

nothing was added to help the cycle, a water change was done to reveal working bioslicks under the initial wastewater.





**Think about the two case studies you just read. The top example is fixing a claimed stuck cycle reef tank with one full water change past day ten wait of a cycling chart's ammonia line. JackAlexander takes time to run proofed api ammonia testing, three pics, for absolute proof he was ready to reef after day ten of wait in his overdosed mix of bottle bac and way too much ammonia. The bac were fed well, not killed by his overdose. Your tank is going to cycle in the same timeframe Jack's did, it doesnt matter if your levels are higher or lower than his. the water change resets it all, revealing a fully working filter underneath the former wastewater.

bottle bac sellers set maximum ammonia limits as a buying impulse, so you buy new bac to replace claimed dead ones

we just disproved high ammonia levels kill out a cycle above





The second case study is doing the full water change in a quarantine tank after discerning he's using enough surface area to hold the cycle, but we skip the 10th day testing verification as ALL reefs of sufficient surface area and boosted approach will be fine on this date, after a big water change. He does not have to run the three point api ammonia test, all quarantine and display setups meeting his specifics will be ready we don't need to test them.


A cycling chart's ammonia line shows it, that's how fast ammonia-handling organisms implant and adhere to surface area you're upcycling.

It doesn't matter what random mix of bacteria and feed you sustain in the water, the time it all stews/# of days underwater is what matters and a cycling chart shows us that around day ten that ammonia drops




ammonia will stay safely controlled on that date after submersion because all cycles will complete after that many days in boosted systems, bottle bac + feed systems, well enough to make 80 year old charts on it.



your filter bac endured any initial variation on dosing and feed, mild overdoses of ammonia fed your bac better, not worse, just do a water change if you're concerned and 100% of reefs will pass this thread.



your red sea and api ammonia tests are prone to misread, your missed nh3 conversion misleads, so we don't rely on them here we turn out timely cycles where you can message any entrant a year later to see how things fared.


There are no stuck cycles in reefing. nearly everyone that will post here has been running longer than ten days on a bottle bac mix, so expect 100% of responses to state a past ready date, not a future one.



What you should be concerned about is fish disease, if you are a new cycler read this entire thread below to give your fish the best chance, ammonia and nitrite hasn’t killed anyone’s newly started reef but disease sure does— we will be the first cycling works to include fish disease study before the study of ammonia control. Read this thread fully

There are no bottled dosers you can buy to add to a display tank to treat or reduce disease, they don’t work.





People still tend to run API tests anyway, its how we've been trained to reef by bottle bac sellers. One common comparison to proof a bad cycle is to run ammonia testing on distilled water, and get a yellow zero, and then on a suspected reef setup and it reads slightly green, which is interpreted as proof of a failed or stuck cycle

(and always leads to a new purchase, read the cycle trend threads yourself to see this pattern of doubt/buy/resolve training)

******so why does my api show true zero when I test distilled water or Ro Di vs my tank***************


because only your tank has nitrification going on to over report via non digital testing. If your distilled water had nitrogen compounds in it they couldn’t sell it to you as distilled. We expect distilled to test as zero when it does.

Your tests are reading total ammonia from your display water sample, we only care about the free form nh3 amount of ammonia and your test kit instructions show how to see that converted number… your initial habit is to report total ammonia, we only use free ammonia or nh3 levels in updated cycling science.
You need to report your current ammonia levels ten times lower in order to attain nh3 conversion; nh3 is ten times less than nh4 at the pH and temp levels we run, paraphrased from Dan and Randys posts in the chem forum.

* all stuck cycle posts you can find on the internet are cycle umpires taking a total ammonia stated read as an indication or weakened or killed bacteria. They’re not factoring nh3, and we do in updated cycling science.

Certain additives like Prime and other water conditioners are largely unstated additives; they directly cause misreads. Did you put prime in your distilled water when benchmarking? we don't want guess testing here; that's what runs all other cycle threads. Posting a single pic of your api ammonia nitrite and nitrate and us not knowing about confounds or a green-tinted kitchen light is everyone's common stuck cycle thread.

we don't want the unverified test kit picture as your opening proof.



if you want to test and know ammonia accurately in your reef buy and calibrate a seneye ammonia meter, then report those levels to us. Don’t forget to trim and calibrate it so it reads correctly, search out trim threads for the device.


in our thread we dont ask about your alkalinity nor salinity nor pH nor nitrite and yet we turn out pages of cycled reefs, that’s because those troubleshooting details aren’t required, cycles don’t stall with these common setup variances.

nearly every reef that posts here for the next twenty pages was ready when they first posted, notice this trend. they're all ready, none were before ready I can see on hindsight inspection.

does that mean your reef now is likely ready or not ready? You're already at the disease control options step, you're past being ready to begin carrying fish

skipping quarantine like you read the sage reef aquarists doing is killing fish by the bucketload, that's what makes them masters...they get to have ideal outcomes by using methods you and I can't replicate in the fish disease forum. Copy what works there as best practices:

A mere four study links gets you all you need to know about cycling a reef tank. Its about disease control, the cycle was so easy you couldn't mess it up if you tried.

There are no stuck cycles in reefing, there’s only pre water change no TAN conversion forgot to mention Prime false alert posts.


bottle bac doser companies, retailers, don’t fix that purchase cycle because they’re profiting off it and from peers who continually resell bac to each other in false stall cycle posts. Don’t be that poster

Think about this: do reef conventions ever have trouble aligning 500 instant reef starts on time since 1998? no

they have timely cycles, not open-ended 3 month waits.

what about pet stores? they receive shipments all day in and out, some stock doesnt move over time it becomes and instant + bioload to the existing system. some corals remain long enough in holding tanks to grow there permanently, all sorts of quick and timely cycles exist and we can to pick and choose the best aspects of each one to make cycles align here, just the same. When those pet stores receive crates of bottle bac do they use it up keeping their animals alive, or is 100% for sale because they don't need any?


if you're getting a start date assessed here for your tank you've met more than one marker for readiness they're just being obscured by other readings we don't include using new cycling science.
 
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brandon429

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team

if you read that thread front to back, learn it, you'll see why every entrant coming here thought they were stalled when they were not stalled. We aren't actually unstalling cycles, none were ever stalled they're all misreads lol its a play on words.


the reason we change water 100% where possible, lesser in large tanks, isn't for free ammonia concerns as nobody posting here has true free ammonia concerns they have false ones.


we do the water change to export all the mixed stew of additives folks add in reaction/concern for cycle stall issues. we don't want a chemical soup for your new animals, we want clean water not full of prime and six mixed oxygen-sapping bacterial mixes. we want clean water, that's why we change.

the second reason we change all their suspect water out for new is because most entrants will still test for ammonia anyway, using misreading kits, and we want them to see how even after known safe water was instilled their api still reads .5/ludicrous

the big water change is many folks' first proof that their test kits are over reporting, bigtime, even on known clean safe water.


What to watch out for when reading old cycling rules threads as you compare to our methods



-did the aquarist, or the assessment umpires, leave any room for gross mis testing or misreporting of ammonia levels as the link above shows? Did the thread proceed uncontested around stated parameters and those reports are from non digital gear?

-Did the cycle umps discover whether or not Prime was dosed, which causes complete misreads in non digital tests, or was that left undiscovered?


-watch for un enjoyment right at the start, doubt, bacterial fear compared to our twenty pages of commanding tanks with prediction and resolve


-watch for peers who vote for dead bacteria, buy more (not one cycle in our pages had dead bacteria, it’s as common as day concern in old cycling science threads, doubt rules, purchases made in doubt rule in old cycling science)

-watch for digging in heels around nitrite posting despite rule from post #1 above

-can they meet any sort of timeline or consistent start date expectation? every post here in this thread received a specific start date.

-how does bacterial doubt affect their buying habits compared to posters in this thread?

****watch for complete disregard of all fish disease preps. No cycle umps redirect the concern away from the total belief in non digital test kits, a hyperfocus on not being ready/wait longer rules all cycles ran by the old rules.
 
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Krixic

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A major theme here will be changing out the cycling water causing myriad test read outcomes for new water, and beginning to reef.

What's going on with nearly all stuck cycle claims is a full established biofilter, clung to rocks and sand, underneath a bunch of random ammonia addition wastewater.

If you remove the wastewater for new, leaving the adhered bacteria, you now have a functioning biofilter underneath clean water (and I still bet api says you're stalled lol)

At that point, when you begin reefing things will live, because you're cycled.

To observe what happens in an uncycled tank within 48 hours, add totally dry rocks to a five gallon bucket of new water and add a mix of snails and crabs/ clean up crew, and check back in 48 hours

Conversely, in a cycled system the cuc will thrive day to day

In the end, cycling is about the stark changes that occur between able to keep animals alive, and clearly unable to keep animals alive... it's not ever about earning zero ammonia on a test kit as any working seneye owner can tell us that free ammonia is never zero in a reef tank, ever

Expecting a zero measure when zero doesn't exist in nature comprises 99.99% of stuck cycle claims- it's the test as the problem not the actual cycle.
Thats some good info! Never really understood why my ammonia tests never wanted to read zero.
 
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brandon429

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also added to the mix: at no time will nitrite factor into our process, not at all.

every type of cycle has an associated time frame for the basal layer to complete. ranging amounts of ammonia and nitrite don’t stall base layer accumulation, within reason. no exacting amounts required...it’s all about submersion time to know when a cycle is complete.

bacteria are getting feed beyond what we provide; look up microbial distribution pathways in a home online and see the myriad input ships for bacteria, feed which degrades into ammonia etc. we don’t starve filters by withholding feed; nature has been feeding them in every rain puddle even if we’re not there to allow it with our all powerful dead shrimp/fish food/ ammonium chloride offerings :)

the -reason- we give boosts to cycle (feed, bottle bac) is to speed up required submersion time, you cannot stall a cycle by withholding feed to an open topped tank in a home, if we withhold feed then the timeframe required is the unassisted cycle time frame- see online cycling charts for reference. most people nowadays don’t want to wait 30-45 days for an old school cycle, and they want to download songs faster than 45 mins per song/1997

cycling options now includes total skip cycling (transferring live rock among existing aquariums) and quick cycling (a few days with any strain of bottle bac, see Dr. Reef’s bottle bac study) and unassisted cycling (add dry rocks to water and wait for natural contaminations to set up, takes a long time) and curing cycles where ocean rocks are mailed and we change water to stop dieoff, leaving once again a basal layer full complement)

99.999% of cycles here will be the first two options. And all those are ready within predictable submersion dates, even if api disagrees, even if you think for sure your bottle bac must have died. We will show the predictability not the variability of reef tank cycling in this thread, and the marker is either a tank with living animals day to day or it’s a totally dead system/ all new additions lost due to bad cycle, there is no mid ground. No cycle stalls, not any of them, they complete by the known submersion dates we will show.


***** look at this reef which cycled when a chart said it would, using NO added bacteria only light feeding (naturally-sourced bacteria)

every tank you and I will work here has dosed the speedy bacteria, see why no cycles stall? At worst they're ready when a cycle chart says they’re ready:
 
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brandon429

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Part of updated cycling science is that nitrite simply does not factor in -marine- tank cycles, with no nuances, we don’t need to know nitrite in any reef coming up and I’ll drive this thread to twenty pages by 2022. Only ammonia is required to know

In freshwater cycling nitrite matters.


nitrite can’t stall a cycle (though MACNA videos say it can, aware, I’m debating that directly) and no testers today read nitrite reliably they’re all cross reading somehow or contaminated by a water prep. We can’t test for it correctly as a hobby, we tend to make extra unneeded purchases from testing alerts for nitrite.

in Randy’s chem forum they discuss how the chloride content of s water occupies all receptor sites for nitrite damage in fish, we‘re too salty to matter. I have numerous separate threads showing it cannot stop or stall ammonia control; only ammonia control matters here
Corals and pods and inverts worms and bacteria and fish aren’t harmed by nitrite presence in a cycling tank, if there’s harm it’s from only ammonia.

we have 100% cycle compliance coming up here because we only factor one param, ammonia, and we predict when that’s ready a tester isn’t required. Time frame underwater + boosters used alone will determine every cycle start date coming on this thread

the start date is the date we can add life and it lives, vs what happened in the test bucket with a full clean up crew in new water over dry rocks (totally dead and smelly gray water in 48 hours)


test kits are lying to everyone, we will use the life in the reef tank to show ammonia is under control in all claimed stuck cycles.


any seneye owner is welcomed to post ammonia data. I trust those three hundred dollar digital testers that test free ammonia out to thousandths ppm

no other kit can be trusted here.

we have a special way to use api ammonia to proof a cycle, it’s by using the test differently than the directions.

most people have api, and if we rearrange how the test is used they can proof a cycle quite well
 
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Krixic

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Part of updated cycling science is that nitrite simply does not factor in -marine- tank cycles, with no nuances, we don’t need to know nitrite in any reef coming up and I’ll drive this thread to twenty pages by 2022. Only ammonia is required to know

In freshwater cycling nitrite matters.


nitrite can’t stall a cycle (though MACNA videos say it can, aware, I’m debating that directly) and no testers today read nitrite reliably they’re all cross reading from some other param or interaction between ammonia or nitrate in some way. We can’t test for it correctly.

in Randy’s chem forum they discuss how the chloride content of s water occupies all receptor sites for nitrite damage in fish, we‘re too salty to matter. I have numerous separate threads showing it cannot stop or stall ammonia control; only ammonia control matters here


we have 100% cycle compliance coming up here because we only factor one param, ammonia, and we predict when that’s ready a tester isn’t required. Time frame underwater + boosters used alone will determine every cycle start date coming on this thread

the start date is the date we can add life and it lives, vs what happened in the test bucket with a full clean up crew in new water over dry rocks (totally dead and smelly gray water in 48 hours)


test kits are lying to everyone, we will use the life in the reef tank to show ammonia is under control in all claimed stuck cycles.


any seneye owner is welcomed to post ammonia data. I trust those three hundred dollar digital testers that test free ammonia out to thousandths ppm

no other kit can be trusted here.
Fascinating, ill be sure to follow along any more info you post here. Thanks!
 
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brandon429

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Post me a stuck cycle + willing aquarist to run a water change and we’ll make the ready date call. They change water, add animals, animals live, it’s cycled. For pages coming up :) it just takes a while to get the wheel going
 
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brandon429

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Here's a fitting case study for our way of cycling. The mix of wastewater has conversions in place from nh3-nitrite-nitrate, all swirling in the mix. Dr. Reef's bottle bac thread specifically tested Dr Tim's and found it to be adhered to tank surfaces, immune to a full water change, within the timeframe of the directions stated on the bottle. To have active bac means it locks into place within these ten days

so, if he changes out water it leaves the functioning bioslick, and his tank is off and running with clean water, animals added will simply live feed and act normally.

summary


A. old way of cycling: input mix of additives and wait until zero ammonia, nitrite, and some nitrate (weeks past the directions date, you pay for speed cycling and still get to wait out like an old school 30 day cycle) and if any single param varies, wait longer the cycle is stuck. you wait, indefinately, until the $9 ammonia test and nitrite test allows you to reef. you cannot reliably start on any date using this approach; test kits decide. You could not take the new reef to a MACNA convention to skip cycle, like the others. You'd miss the start date and then some. wanna upgrade the reef or move homes? be prepared for an indef wait, before you can add fish back in the reassembly.


do reef conventions ever work that way? do their rows and rows of skip cycle tanks look weak, or lack fifty grand in delicate life swimming around for you to buy?

B. new way of cycling, based on new ways of measuring free ammonia (expensive digital ammonia testers, namely seneye, or lab quality gear for nh3 is a fine sub) that shows old ways are completely wrong: input mix of items, let stew for the stated timeframes on the bottle. Test for any degree of ammonia reduction + nitrogen species in any combination like the above tank, change out water, begin reefing/add life it was never stalled as no reef tank cycle stalls, that was all wrong testing information. You can meet any desired start date with this approach. You can make a deadline. Its equally as strong as the original cycle above, because strong = how many water changes it can endure which is unlimited. You can move the reef or transfer it and begin, with all fish + some, on any date you desire, before you begin, and your cycle will be complete

nitrite compliance does not factor in updated cycling science nor at any reef convention ever. if you want to consider presence of nitrite proof that you can see oxidation, that's valid, but we dont need the nitrite to go down or care what it does.
 
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brandon429

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has positive nitrite at week seven, we dont mind. still done, ready, and already reefing a while now
 
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Here’s one, ammonia is not at .5


his cycle was ready (unaffected by a full water change, bacteria locked in place on rocks) about forty days ago.

reasons for his misread: that’s probably TAN reading and the nh3 portion is .05, people remind us of those conversions routinely, my friend Dan P is a strong chemist and keeps that reminder going so I’ll relay it here
 
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# of times we use bottle bac re-added to unstick a cycle, zero.

# of times we will actually encounter a stuck cycle here, pull examples from any forum we want and post them, zero.

stuck cycles are a false claim, it was about to cause more bottle bac sales above and this is always the case.

stuck cycles are caused by false test ammonia readings, or the occasional tomfoolery where someone sets up an all dry system, doesn’t add bottle bac, doses ammonia to 1ppm and it holds for a month and then posts that to mess with me endlessly.


if we’re talking about any form of bacteria inoculation into saltwater, and a week or so, you’re cycled. The way to unstick a stuck cycle is to verify inoculation source + time underwater related to the 8 days ammonia control on a common cycling chart, and then type out that they’re not stuck, they’re just not using seneye. Fixed. No cycles stall in reefing, the sum total of being told that is we buy bottle bac in droves, making cash leave us and outflow
 

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Going on 2 weeks using bactra start and dead shrimp. Should I take out the shrimp? Add more bac? Start the skimmer? I have dry sand and 1/2 dry rock. Other half was live rock I kept in saltwater for many weeks....hope it remained alive

image.jpg
 
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Cbones thank you very much for our first challenge. Your cycle is complete in the way mentioned, due to three clues you 100% have a functioning biofilter layer where a water change + remove shrimp + add animals works. They’d die in an uncycled tank, but here they will live for an easy 3 clues:

1. time- submersion time rules all in cycling -not- parameter testing. You are at fourteen days. Locate any cycling chart to see what ammonia is doing at day fourteen...and those charts don’t count bottle bac speed boosting. Your ammonia is controlled due to what the time axis on a universal cycling chart shows, that the ammonia test above appears stalled is expected. It cannot report the real levels.

2. we can see nitrite in the pic, and nitrate. If they were hard zero no action + hard yellow ammonia after fourteen days that would be strange, but we see nitrification in action right there. It’s not stuck, only those testers make the cycle seem stuck no biology or seneye testing will read what those read. Nitrification in steps is occurring per your pics. Our thread here uses updated cycling science to prove it can’t stall just above completion, there is no half cycled. There’s able to carry fish, cycled, or will kill new fish in 48 hours, uncycled. Reef tank surface area doesn’t allow for a middle ground at day 14 all cycle charts and seneye meters show.

3. Live rock inclusion. Any bioload you add will be carried by the live rock alone, that the dry systems have been given feed and inoculation time matching chart times is extra, this tank is cycled and if you wait for api to show it, could be sixty more days. Fish or a clean up crew are going to act the same then, or now. This cycle is not stuck, the ability for api to read correctly is stuck. Living animals or seneye readings are the only ways to prove readiness.

wet live rock stays self-fed per this thread (three years no feed in garage, passes ammonia oxidation movement down)



please update pics when you begin. I’m certain no animals will show ammonia poisoning behavior at all, and seneye ammonia would never spike above .05 ppm nh3 bad ammonia at any time in this cycle due to live rock inclusion. Change the water, begin. We want to use repeatable science to name safe start dates and then this thread is held accountable for the call. Your safe start time is now.
 
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Top Shelf Aquatics

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Hi Brandon,
Thanks for this thread - makes perfect seneye (see what I did there...)

I transferred all my LR, ceramic media and livestock from my Reefer 170 to new 625XXL + new dry rock + all new sand + 64 Oz ATM Colony (just to be safe). Lo and behold I was still measuring 0.2-0.4 ammonia after 2 weeks.

Clearly I know it’s b/s because;
1) My filtration and bioload did not change - the transfer was immediate so wouldn’t have seen any bacterial die of
2) I ADDED good bacteria, which would have supported any die off and sped up the seeding of new dry rock
3) All of my livestock is absolutely fine & behaving normally

Just some questions for you;
1) What is my Red Sea ammonia test reading and why?
2) How big a water change is required to remove whatever is creating the NH3 reading?

Thanks
Matt
 
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brandon429

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Agreed 100% with your assessment it is not stuck, in retrograde, or cycle harmed in any way. i do not know what kind of artifacts or cross-reads make these non seneye testers read high levels. We can also add to confusion when many people can get a Red Sea or api ammonia to read zero. The majority can’t.

We are reminded of nh3 conversion charts for red sea where we divide our total ammonia nitrogen readings to get hundredths ppm for most readings, but seneye doesn’t agree that normal reefs run at hundredths ppm, their collective logs shows that reefs convert free ammonia at the rate of thousandths ppm-much faster than titration kits has us believing. even after conversion, no titration kit patterns to match what seneye shows. That is a clue we’ve been believing falsely what ammonia does for potentially thirty years lol in the hobby.

as I study ammonia control over the years here using other people's readings and post patterns, one thing has become apparent: no reef I’ve seen ever hits tenths ppm nh3 and no reef sustains it. Not once. The worlds most oft-reported measure (try google and find us an ammonia measure not in the tenths, it’s everyone’s read) has never occurred on anyone’s seneye (machine that digitally reads to thousandths ppm)

I keep a fun tiny cash bounty going for twenty bucks: $20 PayPal to the first poster who sources out a seneye log online and posts it here showing tenths ppm sustained more than two hours. Even when baited by cash its hard to find a single seneye agreeing that any cycle sticks, stalls or hangs or retrogrades.
Even when reefers input the calc’d amount of ammonia to hit 2 ppm in a seneye setup during cycle, the bottle bac they add is quick enough to begin work- in two hours they will not even be in the tenths itll move down into hundredths ppm and that aligns with ten thousand fish-in cycles where newbies who aren’t even measuring ammonia keep getting away with it-totally happy fish during a period everyone says they’re being ‘burned’

and the test kits indicating a ‘burn’ are never seneye. Patterns :)
 
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brandon429

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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tejas
* I believe there is a way to make Red Sea and api ammonia work for us, it’s the calibrated zero approach. What you read above on your Red Sea is it’s calibrated zero, the lowest it will report in this particular arrangement at this time.

the safe zone you can see functioning well in your reef happens to be .2 or .4 on that tester. So if you had no fish corals or cuc in there and you wanted to verify, we’d add ammonium chloride into the tank until that ammonia reading goes one increment up as positive free ammonia, a discernible color change up but not 2 ppm, one degree darker than it is now. a re test in 24 hours will move it back down to this level above, the movement down is proof of cycling work and not required to hit zero, the majority will never get a zero so we change the calibration levels for the kits and they work.

a funny secret for this thread is I expect 0% of posts to be stuck, cycles cannot stick or freeze or stall as we have been told. Anyone who posts here is already cycled because they’re all older than 5 days and Dr. Reef’s bottle bac test thread shows nearly all brands of bacteria adhered to surfaces, immune to full water changes, in that time. Every ammonia reading here will be artifacting and we don’t care what the nitrite or nitrate shows, though they can still be handy indicators of action like in Cbones’ tank

these cycling charts we can find on google are fifty years old from textbooks, that science runs waste treatment facilities that produce our clean drinkable tap water, nitrification is well understood in those industries it’s only our hobby who soundly believes an aquatic system of high surface area doesn’t follow universal nitrification timelines. Ammonia is controlled by day ten on all cycling charts for a reason, and our tanks are complying the animals routinely show.

why we dont care about nitrite in this thread: Randy Holmes-Farley's article on nitrite in the reef tank, its neutral impact to us. If we were freshwater, it would matter. It might matter in brackish cycling I havent asked.


why we dont care about nitrate: we can find zero nitrate posts in all types of reefs new and old, to be zero on nitrate could indicate denitrification, plant binding, bad test reading, we'll never know. Nitrate is for algae tuning and color tuning in corals and prevention of certain invaders; its absence in a cycle means nothing. If ammonia is being oxidized nitrate is produced, by rule, and we may or may not detect it with nine dollar testers.


only ammonia control matters in reefing because a tiny fractional amount not under control will kill animals and make them behave in distressed ways and they will never act normal when ammonia is not under full control.
 
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xiholdtruex

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I had a issue in 2017 where I was cycling my tank and kept getting wierd number high ammonia and nitrate. I emailed dr tims and they pretty much told me the same thing. do a large water change the bacteria is on the rocks and sand and add fish your good to go! I am a firm believer that large water changes do not effect aquaria as long as the alk ca and mag match I have never had any issues and have see it with a few members in the local club as well. @brandon429 Good info as always!
 
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