Mystery coral die off

[jsker]

I recently struggled with the same issues. For over 430 days my tank was limping along with coral health coming and going and slow unexplainable coral deaths. I eventually took action and did a 100% water change and dipped all my corals. I have a thread about it here:

SPS Experts: Can you figure it out?

I'm about at my wits end with this issue. It has been a persistent struggle for the past 430+ days and I'm at the brink of shutting down the tank completely and starting over fresh. Here is the essential breakdown: 2016- mid 2018 the tank was humming along perfectly. Mind breaking SPS growth...

www.reef2reef.com

Ever since then the health of my corals seems to have rebounded nicely and colors are beginning to return. It’s too early to declare success, but so far I’m pleased. I do hypothesize there was either a microbial ecological imbalance that was causing issues and when corals health are hurt their immune system is compromised to opportunistic microbes that live in the skin of corals. It’s incredibly difficult to test for this and demonstrate it as a hobbyist, all we have are academic research papers to draw from and form our best conclusions. It really is tough to go through when you can’t find anything clearly wrong, but corals are dying. I had success with my tank tear down and refill, but I can’t say why it was successful or if it will help for you. Best of luck though!

I have my fingers crossed for your success

 

[jsker]

-I am running European system using the natural bacteria to break down the waist and feed the corals. So having to clean of a system is not good-

A pattern is emerging
That system hasn't been recommended to turn around a distressed tank but is being practiced.

How has that approach been factored or neutralized as a potential and sole causative

The tenets of that system so far are directly opposite of known working methods to fall back on... It's a hands off approach mentioned first post.
You described symptoms of an atypical method even before knew one was being ran

It may well work for others agreed, zeovit has pros and cons alike. excellence in color or total bleaching, not a lot in the middle. what if some aspect of this custom approach is putting your tank in the middle of that other system


Those details stand out.

Since the beginning of June I have had problems with some corals and zero or near zero growth. Since a couple of weeks ago it has slowly get better and the white growth zones start to develop again. Everything looks better. My last IPC was rather good - but I have start with a daily dose of iron and strontium. I have dosed iodine every day for 2 years now. The Triton DOC test indicate to much of organic nitrogen, probably in the form of proteins/amino acids. I run the skimmer more wet (not much more but I get skimate) I have had some islands of cyano and have defeat it with blowing it away now and than. NO3 have been lowered to around 2 ppm but PO4 remain around 0.1 - 0.12

I have slowly change some parameters and it looks like it is on the right path for the moment - but why - do not ask me

Sincerely Lasse

That is some good information.

I have not run Zeomix/zeovit in a while now. I tested this morning on my Mg was very low, and I am dosing up the Mg with my water change. Tomorrow I will go to WWC and see if they have a ICP test or I will order a couple online. Got busy today and did not have time to go to the store

 

[jgvergo]

@jsker I'm so sorry to see that your tank is in distress (I'm sure YOU are too!). I really like the idea of doing an ICP test. It gives you a very comprehensive view of the water chemistry parameters that might be impacting your system.

I'm pulling for a complete recovery!

 

[brandon429]

Hey based on the pics, isn't this just an algae challenge? couldn't see if that's mainly coral or an easy algae target

 

[gig 'em]

Pictures or did not happen ;Hilarious ;Hilarious ;Hilarious

There are a couple photos in my thread! Of course not many, the last thing on my mind with 3 simultaneous dips and draining a tank at the same time was taking photos

 

[jsker]

@jsker I'm so sorry to see that your tank is in distress (I'm sure YOU are too!). I really like the idea of doing an ICP test. It gives you a very comprehensive view of the water chemistry parameters that might be impacting your system.

I'm pulling for a complete recovery!

Thank you

 

[jsker]

Hey based on the pics, isn't this just an algae challenge? couldn't see if that's mainly coral or an easy algae target

This was the tank over a year ago

 

[jsker]

There are a couple photos in my thread! Of course not many, the last thing on my mind with 3 simultaneous dips and draining a tank at the same time was taking photos

I have been over on your thread before, I will go back later today to read through your thread.

 

[erk]

I got my ICP test back and other than low Iodine and low PO4, nothing else out of the ordinary. I knew the PO4 would be low because I was running GFO to see if anything would change. Nothing did. Whether .2 ppm or .02 ppm, hard coral still dying. I have noticed over the last week or so some increased PE on my gonis. This could be from dosing phyto or switching salt. Other than stopping GFO, these are the only changes I've made. I'm discounting the GFO stoppage because hard corals were dying before and after GFO.

As for the low iodine, I don't know why it was low. I use ESV two part and was doing WCs every week with Red Sea blue bucket. I switched salt to Fritz blue box since my LFS has it at a good price. Was running Red Sea blue bucket when the ICP sample was taken. So not sure why Iodine was low at 12 ppb, ICP says it needs to be at 70 ppb, other sources say 25-80 ppb. Maybe Red Sea salt had lower iodine concentration as I got to the bottom of the bucket, hard to say. I don't really think this has been the source of my problems.

Then there is dosing live phyto over the last 1.5 weeks. I didn't see a change when first dosing, but since I've been dosing 100mL/day, I've seen a steady increase in pod population, most noticeable at night. Its been so good that for the first time I saw a fish fry swimming in the current and eating particles out of the water column. I have a pair of swallowtail damsels that spawn constantly and a group of Talbot's that I'm sure are spawning.

The 3 acropora frags are still slowly dying. No change there. Only SPS I have left. Positive is one of my blasto frags has 2 new heads. From 1 big lonely polyp to big polyp and about 6 baby polyps. At least one hard coral is growing.

 

[MARK M. DAVIS]

This was the tank over a year ago

Your tank has an imbalance. The hair algae is the indicator. Icp/triton test. Do you have a nitrate export system, other than water changes and skimmer? Do you have silica buster on your rodi? It would seem that nitrates are too high which causes lps to do well and sps to suffer. Also, do you dose? Your tank isn’t looking well so you probably aren’t consuming elements very fast. I’m sure the bacterial clean up crew is working on your dead coral. They are most likely the resultant and not the cause. Do you dip for pests prior to sps addition into your tank? These things I mentioned are a start but, you have somstuff to do to get your system where it was a year ago. Doesn’t look like a single fix solution!

 

[brandon429]

what about using the myriad fixes we know for GHA, stopping the European system altogether, and getting the tank back on track within a week? can do

the right way to regenerate the tank isn't to choose options from the sets provided, its to give a reworker total call over your tank for two months and then change to a new system after that if it doesn't work.

hand the wheel over for remote piloting until November/tank will be improved 99%. pick someone here, run only their advised method and no others, and sway from that only at the end of November based on update pics compared to your before pics above.

*one thing I'm certain of: you should not dose things to the water, rot the algae, and let it + rot chemicals circulate around in the tank. Your tank needs disassembly surgery, to rid 100% of the invader and make it look like initial pic by work, not dosing, and in the clean condition you then use methods known to produce gha-free tanks. to continue full hands-off reefing is to take into 2020 to fix this tank, lets fix it right up?

 

[TheHarold]

what about using the myriad fixes we know for GHA, stopping the European system altogether, and getting the tank back on track within a week? can do

[cutt] hand the wheel over for remote piloting until November/tank will be improved 99%

You and Prime Coral would probably be best friends. Lots of confident claims that don’t take into account that in reality, there are many variables and exceptions to any method.

Advertising your method will get the tank on track within a week, and then 99% correction. Just silly. Not everything is as simple as a vase, there are many more factors that could be at play.

 

[brandon429]

Harold you are always trolling me with insults, we know I run work threads all day long this is just another troll attempt easily identified. And, you tried to loop in another person not part of the argument, to continue trolling them. I truly question your badge status, always, due to schoolyard taunt habits.

he doesn't have to use my method, but I have the threads to back it up if required. You don't, however

@Prime Coral

we can report Harold Prime if required, if this is patterned. Sorry you were brought into this.

Harold, if you'd battle with result pictures/threads/works that would be great and accepted. You always start with an insult, and it makes my threads always go on a bad course, only due to your posts. I'm actually going to report this and see if we can't streamline yours and my interactions in the future.

 

[TheHarold]

Harold you are always trolling me but have no actual work threads, we know I run work threads all day long this is just another troll attempt easily identified. And, you tried to loop in another person not part of the argument, to continue trolling them. I truly question your badge status, always, due to schoolyard taunt habits.

he doesn't have to use my method, but I have the threads to back it up if required. You don't, however

@Prime Coral

we can report Harold Prime if required, if this is patterned. Sorry you were brought into this.

I don’t have a badge status?

I mentioned the other person because they say their solution will also “cure” any SPS issues

Just because someone disagrees with what you are saying doesn’t mean it is trolling, sir.

Edit:
I’m not a representative of this community? I don’t know what you are saying. If you’re so upset by someone disagreeing with you, you can just block me?

 

[brandon429]

No representative of this community should be using insults as often.
Reported, want to nip in bud then move on back to tank work. don't want extended issues agreed.


Back to tank work: what do you think about killing off the algae vs letting it recirculate Jsker? What you do long term for algae prevention can range in many ways, but I'd offer years tank reworks summarized to you as don't let that stuff rot and die and circulate around in the system....we can make your tank clean, then you can choose ways to reef different onward.

 

[gig 'em]

That is some good information.

I have not run Zeomix/zeovit in a while now. I tested this morning on my Mg was very low, and I am dosing up the Mg with my water change. Tomorrow I will go to WWC and see if they have a ICP test or I will order a couple online. Got busy today and did not have time to go to the store

Dang dude! You've got a serious algae problem here, no wonder you're experiencing issues. I would always see my coral health decline when algae became too dense in my system. I think ripping out all my rocks and scrubbing the algae off in places until the rock was white was one of the best moves I made in my overhaul. Once I scrubbed all the algae off I increased the number of turbo snails and other clean up crew members to prevent the algae from regaining a foothold again. There are plenty of research papers out there discussing the negative impacts algae has on corals. They outcompete corals for everything from space, to nutrients, to depleting the tank of oxygen at night around the corals. I might make a bold suggestion that you do something similar. I used a nylon brush bit with a power drill and went to town on large patches of algae on my LR until I could not find anymore. This will not eliminate the algae, but reduce it to a point that your CUC can manage it from coming back. IME CUC won't touch algae once it reaches a certain size, so setting it back to just tiny sprouts and increasing grazers has made a tremendous impact for me.

 

[jsker]

Lets stick with the topic guys, and keep this helpful for future readers please

 

[brandon429]

its true the votes for manual cleaning and reset have won out what say ya for the plan of action

 

[jsker]

Back to tank work: what do you think about killing off the algae vs letting it recirculate Jsker? What you do long term for algae prevention can range in many ways,

I am more a natural, let it run it corse. I run bio media (life bio fill) in the sump and long with GFO to control the nitrated and phosphates. Some time Lanthanum chloride if the phosphate get too high. I just started two weeks ago, running Nitra-Phos minus, I am impressed that after two weeks the nutrients are balancing out better then what I was doing with just the bio media and GFO.

@gig 'em, I agree. I have a swamp going on. I am replenishing the clean up crew to take care of the algae and to help bring up the nitrates and feed the corals.

I also agree that right now, balancing nutrients and parameters is the main goal. I have been working on the balance for the past four weeks slowly.

 

[jsker]

its true the votes for manual cleaning and reset have won out what say ya for the plan of action

I am alway up for anaction plan. I drive people nuts writing them;Hilarious

That would be nice to have one here that we all work on for the rest of the member to use

I am off to WWC to get a ICP test now. I will be back in a bit.