Never ending battle of Nitrates and PO4

[Max93]

Hello,

I am having an imbalance in nitrates/PO4 which makes sense with my acropora coloration. They're growing, have PE, but the color is still MEH.

I recently increased my feeding, causing more growth and better PE. But, I did notice that I have a big imbalance. I do dose NOPOX (10ml/day) and run a skimmer. That's it, I don't use anything else for filtration/export. I don't even do water changes.

220g acropora dominant.
Fish:

Blue Hippo, Convict Tang, Kole Tang, Yellow Tang
Foxface
Lyretail (1) - getting 3 more end of month.
Clowns (2)
Yellow wrasse (1)
Dragonface pipefish (2)
Mandarin dragonet (1)
Copperband
Royal

So 14 fish right now, 16 by end of month. I also have about 80-100 snails, couple shrimp.
I fee 3-4 times a day: Half a nori sheet a day, 3 cubes of frozen a day spread out throughout the day.

Here is a screenshot of my parameter trend.. been testing less because I thought I was fine. My plan:

1. Decrease NOPOX to 5ml a day versus 10ml a day.
2. Decrease skimmer strength to 50% versus 100%
3. Continue feeding the same


Again everything is growing very well, just have poo colors, could definitely be better. Thoughts?

Alk, Calcium, Magnesium, Nitrates, Phosphates, pH, Salinity, Time tested

9/15/2023	8	440	1350	20.1	0.11	8.3	1.024	9:41pm
9/29/2023	7.3			11.9	0.09	8.3	1.025	4:40pm
10/7/2023	7.7	440	1350	3.5	0.14	8.2	1.025	11:15AM
10/14/2023	7.7							9:25am
11/5/2023	8.6	460	1290	5	0.17	8.1	1.025	9:29am
11/7/2023	8.6	.
12/9/2023	8.9	470	1320	0.6	0.24	8.1	1.024	10:30am

 

[Miami Reef]

How much par are the acros getting? In my opinion, you can influence more change in coloration by increasing the light than lowering the nutrients.

You can still strive for a reduction in nutrients.

 

[Max93]

How much par are the acros getting? In my opinion, you can influence more change in coloration by increasing the light than lowering the nutrients.

You can still strive for a reduction in nutrients.

anywhere from 450 - 800.

I run two 400w halides and supplement with blue LEDs. Halides are on 6 hours. LEDs are on 12.

 

[Miami Reef]

anywhere from 450 - 800.

I run two 400w halides and supplement with blue LEDs. Halides are on 6 hours. LEDs are on 12.

I see. I would not reduce the skimmer. There are many benefits of skimming. Just reduce the NOPOX. Corals care about ammonium than nitrate, so ensure your fish food input is adequate.

Also, corals need time to develop the proteins that influence coloration. If they are growing, that is a very good sign. It seems they just need a little more time.

For phosphates, you can use GFO or lanthanum chloride to lower it a bit.

 

[Lavey29]

Numbers are good except nitrates way low now. Have you done a recent ICP to check trace levels?

 

[Max93]

Numbers are good except nitrates way low now. Have you done a recent ICP to check trace levels?

Yes, I run moonshine so I send an ICP test every 2 months. All traces are good, whatever isn't I dose it. I think that's why I haven't killed anything to be honest.

 

[Miami Reef]

edit.

 

[Max93]

I see. I would not reduce the skimmer. There are many benefits of skimming. Just reduce the NOPOX. Corals care about ammonium than nitrate, so ensure your fish food input is adequate.

Also, corals need time to develop the proteins that influence coloration. If they are growing, that is a very good sign. It seems they just need a little more time.

For phosphates, you can use GFO or lanthanum chloride to lower it a bit.

Thank you, I'll keep everything the same and reduce the NOPOX.

I have a GFO reactor, but it is offline in the garage. Just seems like a super hassle, it runs out quick and the effluent comes back positive within a day. I am afraid of lanthanum, I heard it can kill fish.

Any other way to reduce them?

 

[Lavey29]

edit.

Like any test though it gives you a baseline to work with if the test was done correctly. For $45 bucks it's worth it to me 3x per year to get an overall view of my water chemistry.

Of course many beautiful tanks with very experienced reefers never test and rely on their corals to tell them the tank status.

 

[Miami Reef]

Thank you, I'll keep everything the same and reduce the NOPOX.

I have a GFO reactor, but it is offline in the garage. Just seems like a super hassle, it runs out quick and the effluent comes back positive within a day. I am afraid of lanthanum, I heard it can kill fish.

Any other way to reduce them?

GFO is my favorite way to lower phosphates. Put about 2-3 tablespoons and allow the surface of the GFO to tumble. It is guaranteed to work, and in my experience, it works even better after running it for a few days.

Test the tank after a few days to see the change.

 

[Lavey29]

Yes, I run moonshine so I send an ICP test every 2 months. All traces are good, whatever isn't I dose it. I think that's why I haven't killed anything to be honest.

I personally think that although GFO can be effective, it can make acros upset and affect color to but also as Miami mentioned, lighting par has a big impact on colors too.

 

[Miami Reef]

I personally think that although GFO can be effective, it can make acros upset and affect color to but also as Miami mentioned, lighting par has a big impact on colors too.

Yes, but I wouldn’t increase the par in this case. It is plenty high already.

I think time is what’s needed.

 

[Max93]

I am pretty lazy, and the waterbox sump and stand is very difficult to work with which makes me even lazier. I think I'll use rowaphos in a media bag, or chemipure to see if that helps knock down po4 a bit. I know it is more efficient with the reactor, but that would require me to buy new GFO etc, hook up the reactor and all that.

Sounds like the consensus is to:

Keep feeding what I do
Reduce po4 by any method preferred
keep skimming
reduce NOPOX by 50%.

 

[Miami Reef]

The reactor is much more effective for lowering phosphates.

If I had to use GFO in a media bag, I would mix it with activated carbon to prevent clumping and gently agitate the bag daily to ensure all surfaces of the GFO get in contact with the water.

 

[Max93]

The reactor is much more effective for lowering phosphates.

If I had to use GFO in a media bag, I would mix it with activated carbon to prevent clumping and gently agitate the bag daily to ensure all surfaces of the GFO get in contact with the water.

I agree.

I have a high flow area in my sump that will ensure that contact and agitation, I hang it off of the baffles in direct flow. Thank you for the help today, let's see how this goes over the next couple months.

 

[Pistondog]

Numbers look ok, maybe dose some ammonium bicarbonate to bring nitrates up. I agree that gfo can remove other things that your corals may want. If the po4 gets above 0.4 ppm, read about lanthanum chloride threads here. Do not just follow manufacturers direction. Many of us here have used it successfully dozens of times.

 

[Max93]

Thanks all. I did some heavy feeding yesterday, adding 2 bags of chemipure blue, here is where we are tracking.

Alk, CA, Mg, Nitrates, Po4, pH, SG, time tested (didn't test everything else, no need).

12/9/2023	8.9	470	1320	0.6	0.24	8.1	1.024	10:30am
12/10/2023	8.6			5.3	0.21			10:00am

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What are you hoping the Chemipure blue does?

 

[Max93]

What are you hoping the Chemipure blue does?

Hey Randy,

I’m hoping that it helps reduce po4 slowly. Based on what I’ve read on the label, it should help.

 

[Spare time]

Thank you, I'll keep everything the same and reduce the NOPOX.

I have a GFO reactor, but it is offline in the garage. Just seems like a super hassle, it runs out quick and the effluent comes back positive within a day. I am afraid of lanthanum, I heard it can kill fish.

Any other way to reduce them?

You can also just put gfo in a bag if that is easier.