New to hobby, equipment questions...

[Jedi1199]

Hello everyone!

I am a fairly experienced freshwater aquarium owner, wanting to branch into the reef world. Many many.. MANY moons ago, I did attempt a salt tank with some success in the fish only tank side, but any attempt at inverts was unmitigated disaster...

As a result, I have several pieces of existing equipment that I would like opinions about.

First, I am currently researching this, and other forums, to learn as much as I can. I have been watching videos, and reading text everywhere I can find it. IME, forums tend to float off topic quickly, which makes it difficult to get distinct answers to specific questions.

Currently, I am running a 55G glass tank with a Rena Filstar XP3 canister filter (2 baskests of "Bio bals", 1 with the mechanical sponges). 2 Aquclear 110 powerheads for current, a small 100gph HOB filter for added bio and current. IDR what my heater is specifically, and a Nicrew LED light hood. This is a freshwater tank stocked with the last 2 of the original 10 feeder goldfish I bought to "cycle" the tank 11 years ago.. lol

Now... I have a smallish HOB wet/dry filter which uses an AquaClear 450 powerhead for a return and also a HOB protein skimmer of unknown make and flow rate. (its been years and years since I have used these) I can provide pics if that helps. Also, I have ordered a 5 stage RO/DI water filter already.

So, my specific question is, does anyone have any experience with HOB wet/dry filters and protein skimmers? Does this filtration sound adequate? I am also researching lighting, as I AM aware that my current light is not what I need. I will post a seperate thread if I have any specific questions in that area.


Thanks in advance for advice,
J

 

[snorklr]

the only thing i can say about skimmers is they can overflow under certain conditions...especially untill you get things stable and the skimmer dialed in and that can result in water on the floor with a HOB...they're safer in a sump

 

[Ron Reefman]

Hi J and #Welcome to R2R.

Is your saltwater set up going to be the 55g tank?

I'm unsure of the wet/dry filter system. Pics may help. The wet/dry filtration went out of fashion for Saltwater tanks some years ago. I've never even seen a HOB version.

Protein skimmers all use the same basic principles. They can go in the tank, HOB, in the sump or stand alone. I think most, but certainly not all, reefers run a skimmer. I have a small Tunze in-tank skimmer in my frag tank.

Any pump that moves water is OK. Newer units are smaller, probably DC rater than AC and controllable as a wavemaker. But the goal is to move water.

The range of cost on led fixtures runs the gambit from $100 Mars Aqua black box to $900 and more high end fixtures. The expensive ones do NOT necessarily make better light, they just have more bells and whistles for you to play with. And there is nothing wrong with T5 lighting either.

 

[virtual reality]

Got any pictures of your setup we could see?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Although your HOB is decent, I would look into HOB refugium instead utilizing the skimmer you have. Also switch to a titanium heater and canister may be more of a headache as if you don’t clean it frequently, will produce nitrates in your tank

 

[Rmckoy]

I have heard if wet/dry filtration years and years ago . Haven’t seen or heard of anything recently ..

Skimmer : hob skimmers are still used today with the same principal in mind . Air mixed with water . The air bubbles carry organics to the surface to be collected .

newer ones are probably more efficient but I can’t guarantee that’s the case .
There were some pretty good hob skimmers .
my first skimmer was a corallife 125 hob on a 75 gal

the constant worry of will it over flow while I’m away ?
how much water can it pump out through the collection. Cup .
the answer is to the bottom of the inlet lol

do you have pictures of the equipment your planning on using ?

 

[Jedi1199]

Thank you all for the replies...

Here are a few pics of what I am thinking... First, the current tank.



Next, is the wet-dry filter itself. It is rated for tanks between 30 and 50 o I am thinking in conjunction with the canister it should be fine. (Sorry its so filthy, its been stored for years...)

 

[Rmckoy]

Thank you all for the replies...

Here are a few pics of what I am thinking... First, the current tank.



Next, is the wet-dry filter itself. It is rated for tanks between 30 and 50 o I am thinking in conjunction with the canister it should be fine. (Sorry its so filthy, its been stored for years...)

It looks Similar to a sump ....

 

[DaddyFish]

I can't tell much about your HOB filter?
My first inclination would be...

1. Limit the mechanical filtration inside the canister filter to coarse or coarse-to-medium foam (30-45 ppi) and focus on using the canister for biological media filtration.

2. If your HOB is capable, adjust the pickup so that it primarily if not exclusively skims the water surface as opposed to picking up from deeper inside the tank. Concentrate your mechanical filtration in the HOB for ease of maintenance (it's probably the easiest to reach/open/clean). Use medium-to-fine (45 ppi to floss and/or polish fiber). Let the HOB do the work of polishing your water column of things you can see, along with removing the surface skim. You can also add chemical filtration (i.e. carbon in the HOB).

3. Convert the wet/dry trickle filter to a refugium. Very slow flow, add a refugium light source and fill that puppy with chaeto/lettuce something and allow it to be your primary source of nitrate/phosphate export.

I think the combination of the three above will put you in business without the need to purchase a skimmer or any other additional filtration. The key is not to catch too much "gunk" in the canister, but let everything but the big pieces pass so you aren't sludging the canister and having to open it every 5-7 days.

 

[Jedi1199]

2. If your HOB is capable, adjust the pickup so that it primarily if not exclusively skims the water surface as opposed to picking up from deeper inside the tank. Concentrate your mechanical filtration in the HOB for ease of maintenance (it's probably the easiest to reach/open/clean). Use medium-to-fine (45 ppi to floss and/or polish fiber). Let the HOB do the work of polishing your water column of things you can see, along with rem

Thank you, DaddyFish.

The little black box you see in the bottom left of the first picture, actually goes inside the tank and the siphon tubes go inside of that. So , in essence, it is already designed to do exactly what you said.

So, how about this idea? What if i remove all mechanical from the canister and use it exclusively for bio? The HOB has some mechanical ability and from the way things sound, mechanical is pretty much something to be used very sparingly, if at all.

 

[Jarbour14]

Personally when I started I used a similar setup but used a cpr aquafuge hang on refugium with the starter kit from algae barn. Worked wonders for me. It was also pretty easy to maintain as I was learning how to care for water params. they can be pricey but go on sale quite a bit. If you don't want to jump into a big sump straight away i recommend them!

AquaFuge 2 — CPR Aquatic, Inc

www.cpraquaticinc.com

 

[Jedi1199]

OK, I have cleaned up the Wet-Dry a bit so hopefully the pictures will be a little easier to see...

Here is the unit completely emptied out. This is how it would look if you are looking through the tank at the filter.

On the left is the intake chamber, in the middle is the filtration chambers, and on the right is the return.



Here is a closer look at the intake. The black box attaches to the inside of the tank and the siphon tubes draw from inside there. (One of the suction cups is missing.. that's why it's hanging crooked lol)



I am including this shot to help visualize the high water point. after the fill chamber the water never exceeds the level of the black platform in the center.



These last shots show the filter media and the unit more or less complete.






Hope this helps...

Cheers,
Steve

 

[DaddyFish]

Thank you, DaddyFish.

The little black box you see in the bottom left of the first picture, actually goes inside the tank and the siphon tubes go inside of that. So , in essence, it is already designed to do exactly what you said.

So, how about this idea? What if i remove all mechanical from the canister and use it exclusively for bio? The HOB has some mechanical ability and from the way things sound, mechanical is pretty much something to be used very sparingly, if at all.

You need at least coarse mechanical immediately ahead of the biomedia. Otherwise the media will prematurely clog and become useless. It doesn't have to be fine filtering, but coarse to medium for sure. It doesn't typically take a lot. One tray of foam and the rest biomedia works great.

I see the black box (overflow/weir). That's perfect. I'd run that entire setup as a refugium. Put a good LED Refugium light on the top or across the back and you are GTG.

 

[joseserrano]

There are lots of videos on YouTube on how to set up a saltwater tank. Your equipment will not due. You need the added horsepower of a good filtration to help you along the way with the mistakes you will make. This hobby will not forgive frugalness. Especially in the beginning. You have to have a bare minimum most times, and what you have currently isn’t it.

 

[Jedi1199]

I see the black box (overflow/weir). That's perfect. I'd run that entire setup as a refugium. Put a good LED Refugium light on the top or across the back and you are GTG.

How would I accomplish that? From my reading, a refugium is specifically about reducing nitrate and phosphate via nitrate/phosphate consuming macro-algae. I see the principal and understand the concept. My question is, how would I accomplish this with such a small HOB system? From what I have seen, most people have a dedicated chamber in their sump that represents 40-60% of the sump volume to their refugium chamber. With what I have, perhaps 10% of the overall volume would be available for such a setup?

I think I will attach the wet-dry to my current freshwater and see how much water I can actually contain inside.. I will update soon.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Jedi1199]

Update:

I did a dry setup of the HOB wet-dry.. the total water volume, when running as designed is 1.5 G. Again, when I bought this filter back in the early 90's it was marketed for tanks from 30-50G...

 

[Jedi1199]

Update 2... I have ordered an RO/DI filter as stated above...

Amazon.com : LiquaGen - 5-Stage Reverse Osmosis and Deionization RO/DI | Aquarium Reef Water Filter System - 75 GPD : Pet Supplies

Also, I know its early, but I also have ordered a new protein skimmer (found cracks in my old one so I decided to replace rather than repair}...

Amazon.com : Instant Ocean SeaClone 100 Protein Skimmer, For Optimum Skimming Efficiency : Instant Ocean Protein Skimmer : Pet Supplies

If anyone is interested, found Aquaclear 50 powerheads (used to be AC 401) 270gph. on Amazon for $30.. save 25% when you order 2 or more

 

[Jedi1199]

There are lots of videos on YouTube on how to set up a saltwater tank. Your equipment will not due. You need the added horsepower of a good filtration to help you along the way with the mistakes you will make. This hobby will not forgive frugalness. Especially in the beginning. You have to have a bare minimum most times, and what you have currently isn’t it.

Why? With all due respect, your comment comes off as someone parroting what they have read, and quoting it as gospel. In my research, I have found MANY instances of people running very successful reef tanks with no more filtration than a simple HOB mechanical filter and simple water changes. I am, of course, open to ideas. However, I would like to take advice from people who have actual experience with what I propose.

That said, I DO agree that this hobby is not for the faint of budget (although I have seen some stunning budget tanks in my research). The main reason I have avoided branching into a reef tank in my 30+ years of aquarium keeping is exactly that.. Cost!

Would you care to elaborate on your reasons why you feel what I have is inadequate? I am always open to differing viewpoints.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[joseserrano]

Why? With all due respect, your comment comes off as someone parroting what they have read, and quoting it as gospel. In my research, I have found MANY instances of people running very successful reef tanks with no more filtration than a simple HOB mechanical filter and simple water changes. I am, of course, open to ideas. However, I would like to take advice from people who have actual experience with what I propose.

That said, I DO agree that this hobby is not for the faint of budget (although I have seen some stunning budget tanks in my research). The main reason I have avoided branching into a reef tank in my 30+ years of aquarium keeping is exactly that.. Cost!

Would you care to elaborate on your reasons why you feel what I have is inadequate? I am always open to differing viewpoints.

Cheers,
Steve

Feel free to look through my for sale threads and see if idk what I’m doing. Know that the skimmer you got for example will be trash sooner than later. It was seen as trash. We all want to be the exception, but rarely is the case. Once again, YouTube is a great resource.