Nitite- Ammonia Question During Fishes Cycle

[Knuck]

Nitrate 75 ppm, nitrite over 5 ppm, ammonia 0 during fishless cycle. Trying to figure out if I should keep dosing ammonia or stop until nitrites get to zero. After much research it seems some say dose ammonia and others say leave it. If I dose nitrates will be through the roof. If I don't will bacteria go dormant and stall the cycle?

 

[KrisReef]

If you started with zero nitrate then the bacteria have processed ammonia into nitrate which indicates that the bacteria are present and available to handle fish wastes now. You could keep adding ammonia and watching it turn into nitrate but what would be the point of doing that?

I would do a massive water change to remove most of the nitrate and then add fishes. The tank has cycled for ammonia issues and now the tank needs to mature and when coralline algae is growing the tank is getting mature to start thinking about adding corals.

 

[Knuck]

If you started with zero nitrate then the bacteria have processed ammonia into nitrate which indicates that the bacteria are present and available to handle fish wastes now. You could keep adding ammonia and watching it turn into nitrate but what would be the point of doing that?

I would do a massive water change to remove most of the nitrate and then add fishes. The tank has cycled for ammonia issues and now the tank needs to mature and when coralline algae is growing the tank is getting mature to start thinking about adding corals.

My concern is that the Nitrate reading may be skewed by the high Nitrite levels. Don't I have to wait for Nitrites to come down to zero to get an accurate reading of Nitrates to know if its cycled?

Also, I am not ready to add fish for about 3 weeks. What will happen to the beneficial bacteria if I dont dose. I was advised to dose ammonia daily which will further raise Nitrites and Nitrates.

 

[KrisReef]

Nitrites in marine tanks are not as toxic like they are in freshwater.

Get a good test kit if you want to differentiate.

How long have you been running it? The bacteria will keep growing and developing into a more complex system given time and imports of new strains when you add new wet stuff into the system.

Doesn’t hurt to wait longer and keep ghost feeding. Eventually you’ll do the water change and add fish,

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, you may not actually have any nitrate with that much nitrite.

 

[Knuck]

"Yes, you may not actually have any nitrate with that much nitrite"

I agree. I think I am just going to wait for the Nitite levels to catch up and lower on their own. I'm not going to dose Ammonia until Nitrite levels come down below .5.

 

[Dan_P]

Nitrate 75 ppm, nitrite over 5 ppm, ammonia 0 during fishless cycle. Trying to figure out if I should keep dosing ammonia or stop until nitrites get to zero. After much research it seems some say dose ammonia and others say leave it. If I dose nitrates will be through the roof. If I don't will bacteria go dormant and stall the cycle?

Just wondering about you comment about dosing nitrates. Did you mean ammonia?

 

[Knuck]

Poorly worded. I meant if I keep dosing ammonia, won't nitrites and nitrates be through the roof. Didn't mean dose nitrates.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Poorly worded. I meant if I keep dosing ammonia, won't nitrites and nitrates be through the roof. Didn't mean dose nitrates.

Yes. A cycle is called a cycle when two significant actions occur. . . . when ammonia rises then falls and achieves a steady reading of Zero for at least 5 days and when nitrate rises and falls and holds at 20 or below- you are cycled. Ignore nitrites and when fish are added, ammonia will rise and fall, which is normal and why you want to stock slowly

 

[Knuck]

There's no question the tank will process 2 ppm ammonia within a 24 hour period, which some define as a cycled tank. A second school of thought appears to say that the tank is not cycled until nitrites reach 0 as well, which may take twice as long as the ammonia conversion took .

Regardless of which school of thought I follow, my issue is that I will not be adding any livestock for 3 weeks. I was concerned beneficial bacteria would starve but apparently that is not a thing.

 

[Dan_P]

Poorly worded. I meant if I keep dosing ammonia, won't nitrites and nitrates be through the roof. Didn't mean dose nitrates.

Got it.

Some aquarists add a second dose to a) confirm ammonia activity, b) enlarge the amount of bacteria, or c) to make sure their bacteria won’t starve to death.

The bacteria are in your system to stay pretty much whatever you choose to do

The nitrate reading is without question untrustworthy unless the nitrite is zero.

Nitrite can take days to weeks to disappear.

If you can’t stop worrying about starving bacteria, you can add a small amount of ammonium chloride. 1 ppm of ammonia becomes -4 ppm NO3. So, you aren’t in any danger of skyrocketing NO3 with a maintenance dose of ammonium chloride.

 

[Knuck]

Got it.

Some aquarists add a second dose to a) confirm ammonia activity, b) enlarge the amount of bacteria, or c) to make sure their bacteria won’t starve to death.

The bacteria are in your system to stay pretty much whatever you choose to do

The nitrate reading is without question untrustworthy unless the nitrite is zero.

Nitrite can take days to weeks to disappear.

If you can’t stop worrying about starving bacteria, you can add a small amount of ammonium chloride. 1 ppm of ammonia becomes -4 ppm NO3. So, you aren’t in any danger of skyrocketing NO3 with a maintenance dose of ammonium chloride.

Thx. My plan is to wait for Nitirtes to come down a bit and then start dosing 1ppm every other day until a few days before adding fish. I will dose 4ppm ammonia to confirm the tank is still processing ammonia in a 24 hour period (hopefully nitrites will also be 0 by then although not an issue to adding fish) and then test Nitrates and do major water change, depending on nitrate level, and then add fish.

 

[Dan_P]

Maybe your plan can be modified to dose less ammonia so you aren’t starting an aquarium with high nitrate levels.

 

[Knuck]

Maybe your plan can be modified to dose less ammonia so you aren’t starting an aquarium with high nitrate levels.

Less than 1ppm every other day?

 

[Dan_P]

Less than 1ppm every other day?

That is more of what I am thinking, even 1 ppm per week would keep the bacteria happy.

 

[Knuck]

That is more of what I am thinking, even 1 ppm per week would keep the bacteria happy.

Thx

 

[brandon429]

cycle bacteria can't be starved in a home, food gets in, we aren't the sole provider. you can't starve a cycle that's set

your tank can't be made safer to carry fish without actual disease preps, waiting longer for your cycle won't do it. once you wait for the nitrite to hit zero, then add unprepped fish, you'll get what you see in the help threads in the disease forum within a few months if % likelihood means anything.

in order to make your tank safe for fish: no more testing or concerning over filter bacteria, they're set. you need to study and enact fallow and qt fish preps, and that doesn't mean buying or attaining qt fish then stocking an entire reef tank with unfallowed items after adding them

cycle is done, can't be starved, no mention of fish disease preps = this is old cycling science so far. new cycling science would relay the disease preps and inability to starve a completed in-home cycle immediately.

the feed you've added would sustain the bacteria for years without additional feeding along, that's not even counting what contaminates in daily from being in a common home setting. you can't starve a reef tank cycle in a home display setup by simply withholding feed. you would need to seal it up, rob the system of all oxygen and clean out the existing organics and then wait months on end...none of that is going to happen, the opposite is happening in fact.

all the preps you should be reading are in the fish disease forum, the cycle is no longer a thought requirement. it's set until you drain and dry out the tank.