Nitrate lower than phosphate causing algae issues?

[Justfebreezeit]

Hello everyone,

I'm battling a mix of algaes in my 20 gallon aio, nothing crazy yet but I want to get ahead of it.

Tank is around 9 months old and all the corals in it are growing great. From acro's to zoa's. Its a barebottom tank. My filtration is a upflow algae scrubber, Marine pure spheres, carbon and 20% weekly water changes.

I have two clowns, a sixline wrasse, a cleaner shrimp, a tuxedo urchin, about 6 trochus snails, 2 ceriths, 2 astraea, and 2 scarlet hermits.

I have a BRS 5 stage RODI with an inline TDS meter reading 0.

I dose Kalkwasser in my ATO, spongepower, and reef roids once a week.

My nitrates have been undetectable (Nyos) for a couple months and my phosphates have remained .01-.025 on my Hanna ULR. During this time about 4 different of algaes have started to grow on the rocks. Definitly a little GHA, some kind of red branching algae with a good root system, some kind of lettuce looking stuff (really east to manually remove), and what I think might be a little bryopsis.

I've been target hitting algae patches of it all with Hydrogen Peroxide and manually removing a good chunk every water change.

I've been doing a lot of reading and I think my problem could be that my nitrates are quite a bit lower than my phosphates. I've read some anecdotal experiences where people say raising the nitrate solved this issue.

I think instead of going straight to dosing nitrate that I could possibly slowly remove the 8 or so marine pure spheres.

Think i'm on the right track? I do realize the tank is fairly new but I want to get ahead of it.

Please comment and questions!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

No. They ratio doesn’t not matter. Myth.
Limitation can be (a zero) but I didn’t see it n yours.

You change water an awful lot.

I’d look to your source water as a possible problem.

My rodi hit 1 tds and the water here is so bad I had big problems.

 

[WillB]

How quickly did it come up? How long has the algae been there? What kind of lights do you run? As t5 or halide lights get older (about the age of your tank) the spectrum they produce will be favorable to algae growth

 

[WillB]

Hello everyone,

I'm battling a mix of algaes in my 20 gallon aio, nothing crazy yet but I want to get ahead of it.

Tank is around 9 months old and all the corals in it are growing great. From acro's to zoa's. Its a barebottom tank. My filtration is a upflow algae scrubber, Marine pure spheres, carbon and 20% weekly water changes.

I have two clowns, a sixline wrasse, a cleaner shrimp, a tuxedo urchin, about 6 trochus snails, 2 ceriths, 2 astraea, and 2 scarlet hermits.

I have a BRS 5 stage RODI with an inline TDS meter reading 0.

I dose Kalkwasser in my ATO, spongepower, and reef roids once a week.

My nitrates have been undetectable (Nyos) for a couple months and my phosphates have remained .01-.025 on my Hanna ULR. During this time about 4 different of algaes have started to grow on the rocks. Definitly a little GHA, some kind of red branching algae with a good root system, some kind of lettuce looking stuff (really east to manually remove), and what I think might be a little bryopsis.

I've been target hitting algae patches of it all with Hydrogen Peroxide and manually removing a good chunk every water change.

I've been doing a lot of reading and I think my problem could be that my nitrates are quite a bit lower than my phosphates. I've read some anecdotal experiences where people say raising the nitrate solved this issue.

I think instead of going straight to dosing nitrate that I could possibly slowly remove the 8 or so marine pure spheres.

Think i'm on the right track? I do realize the tank is fairly new but I want to get ahead of it.

Please comment and questions!

20% weekly water changes makes me think it’s not a nutrient export issue. Some tanks go through an “ugly phase” when they start. Mine went through it between 4-7 months old. Cyano everywhere and I was convinced I had dinoflagellates. Then one day it was just gone as the bacteria and micro fauna reached a natural equilibrium

 

[WillB]

Higher than normal iron in your water can also cause algae breakouts. Any potential iron source? I had a stand on my 20 when I first started that I welded myself. Eventually it began to rust and I got algae. I eventually figured out small amounts of corrosion was falling in the tank as it rusted!

 

[Justfebreezeit]

No. They ratio doesn’t not matter. Myth.
Limitation can be (a zero) but I didn’t see it n yours.

You change water an awful lot.

I’d look to your source water as a possible problem.

My rodi hit 1 tds and the water here is so bad I had big problems.

I'm really only changing it that much out of habit at this point (so maybe i'll reduce to 10% or skip a week) as my numbers have been consistent. The Source water was the first thing I thought of and haven't eliminated yet as an issue. The RODI system is only 2 months old but I do get around 240 tds into it so its a strong possibility, especially with the amount of water I change.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm unsure if this is the problem what to do in that case. Just changing all the media in the RODI or adding another stage or both?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I'm really only changing it that much out of habit at this point (so maybe i'll reduce to 10% or skip a week) as my numbers have been consistent. The Source water was the first thing I thought of and haven't eliminated yet as an issue. The RODI system is only 2 months old but I do get around 240 tds into it so its a strong possibility, especially with the amount of water I change.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm unsure if this is the problem what to do in that case. Just changing all the media in the RODI or adding another stage or both?

How many stages?
My tap tds Is like 450. Burned all the filters at like only a few hundred gallons.

What salt are you using ?

Amino foods ? Bottled phyto etc ?

I dose alk n cal and do 5 gal a month in my 30 and 55 gal.

What I’m trying is to find what’s feeding it.

 

[Justfebreezeit]

How quickly did it come up? How long has the algae been there? What kind of lights do you run? As t5 or halide lights get older (about the age of your tank) the spectrum they produce will be favorable to algae growth

2 bulb T5, Kessil a160 hybrid with ATI coral plus bulbs around 4 months old. I have reduced intensity recently to try and combat the issue a little.

20% weekly water changes makes me think it’s not a nutrient export issue. Some tanks go through an “ugly phase” when they start. Mine went through it between 4-7 months old. Cyano everywhere and I was convinced I had dinoflagellates. Then one day it was just gone as the bacteria and micro fauna reached a natural equilibrium

Intellectually I think this is probably a big part of it but i'm having a hard time coming to grips with the waiting game if its the case. I want to make sure I eliminate any potential inputs that could cause the issue. Either way I will wait it out before I do anything crazy.

Higher than normal iron in your water can also cause algae breakouts. Any potential iron source? I had a stand on my 20 when I first started that I welded myself. Eventually it began to rust and I got algae. I eventually figured out small amounts of corrosion was falling in the tank as it rusted!

Not that i'm aware of but it could be something im unware of. The only thing in the water is the scrubber (its weighted and sealed, no sign of rust that I can see). A mightyjet return pump thats only 2 months old, a neotherm heater, and an mp10 wetside (that I clean every couple weeks and see no sign).

The light canopy I built does Have some brackets to hold it together but they are painted and show no sign of rust yet, will keep an eye out.
Thanks for taking the time and I will consider and evaluate all of these possibilities.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I think it’s something simple.

When i dosed Tropic Marine balling
Some of my weird algaes bloomed. Had em for years too.

You’ve heard , if you have Dino’s don’t dona wc ? This is true , kinda.
Some salts have stuff in them that feeds the Dino’s.

 

[Justfebreezeit]

How many stages?
My tap tds Is like 450. Burned all the filters at like only a few hundred gallons.

What salt are you using ?

Amino foods ? Bottled phyto etc ?

I dose alk n cal and do 5 gal a month in my 30 and 55 gal.

What I’m trying is to find what’s feeding it.

Im using red sea blue bucket, and its a 5 stage BRS RODI.

No amino or phyto, I do dose KZ spongepower and feed reef roids once a week. I've considered stopping both of these but am afraid my nutrients might get to low. At one point my acro's started paling and feeding reef roids is what I believe to be what recolored them. (Either directly or through increased N and P)

Maybe reduce water changes and see if that helps? That might help me determine if its the RODI before spending money on filters.

Like I said my corals are doing great at this point so I dont want rush anything.

 

[Justfebreezeit]

I never considered the salt being the issue but I see how that would make sense.

I did switch from NSW to Blue bucket about 4 months ago.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It not the blue bucket it’s the KZ and n p.
Probably direct fertilizer. And then water might be to clean.

Any idea of your par? It might help to lower the intensity or time , skip some water changes , beef the cuc and toothbrush regime. Feed the fish more real food and go with out supplements. Pee an poo are good for coral. And less available as nutrients to algae. Food and poo has to rot before it’s good for algae. Pee is absorbed directly by coral.

Yes I know , you have alge and I’m sayin skip some WC. Lol. That’s counterintuative.

 

[Justfebreezeit]

It not the blue bucket it’s the KZ and n p.
Probably direct fertilizer. And then water might be to clean.

Any idea of your par? It might help to lower the intensity or time , skip some water changes , beef the cuc and toothbrush regime. Feed the fish more real food and go with out supplements. Pee an poo are good for coral. And less available as nutrients to algae. Food and poo has to rot before it’s good for algae. Pee is absorbed directly by coral.

Yes I know , you have alge and I’m sayin skip some WC. Lol. That’s counterintuative.

Ok. No skipping water changes makes perfect sense! Ok so my plan of attack is no kz sponge power anymorr, and skip a water change or two.

I'm not sure of my par exactly but with the lux meter i can guess. Its probably around 300 on the top of the rocks in the middle and 80-100 on the bottom. This is with 2 kessil 160s and 2 bulb t5.

Thanks for the help. I'll report back in 2 weeks on this issue.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've been doing a lot of reading and I think my problem could be that my nitrates are quite a bit lower than my phosphates. I've read some anecdotal experiences where people say raising the nitrate solved this issue.

I think instead of going straight to dosing nitrate that I could possibly slowly remove the 8 or so marine pure spheres.

Think i'm on the right track? I do realize the tank is fairly new but I want to get ahead of it.

Please comment and questions!

I think that unless you have dinos, there's no good evidence that I have seen that adding nitrate will reduce a pest.

That said, I would allow nitrate to rise out of concern for dinos appearing.

FWIW, most algae and other photosynthetic organisms may get their N from ammonia directly if nitrate is low.

 

[BigJim]

The red branching and lettuce like algae sound like macro algae. I would look into a couple Mexican turbo snails as they seem to love macro algae. The only algae I have noticed becoming a problem when my nitrate is 0 is film algae on the glass. I always know my nitrate is 0 when the glass needs cleaned daily.

 

[Justfebreezeit]

I think that unless you have dinos, there's no good evidence that I have seen that adding nitrate will reduce a pest.

That said, I would allow nitrate to rise out of concern for dinos appearing.

FWIW, most algae and other photosynthetic organisms may get their N from ammonia directly if nitrate is low.

That's fair, and thanks for taking the time. I'm going to go with no water changes for a couple weeks and then a small one and stop any coral foods unless they start to pale.

The red branching and lettuce like algae sound like macro algae. I would look into a couple Mexican turbo snails as they seem to love macro algae. The only algae I have noticed becoming a problem when my nitrate is 0 is film algae on the glass. I always know my nitrate is 0 when the glass needs cleaned daily.

definitly macros, any time my urchin finds the lettuce stuff its gone the next day, he dosent touch the branching stuff though.

Only a 20g tank, a mexican turbo would be huge in here haha!

And thats interesting, I can tell my nutrients are low because my glass only needs to be cleaned every 5-6 days at the moment. When I feed heavier in an attempt to raise N and P the film algae definitly grows faster and I have to clean every other day it seems.

 

[Hans-Werner]

It is more likely that your low phosphate concentration is causing the algae problem than some phosphate nitrate ratio. If phosphate is limiting your coral growth algae have easy game since no coral competes for iron, other trace elements and nitrogen. I think nitrate additions will worsen the problem.

 

[BigJim]

That's fair, and thanks for taking the time. I'm going to go with no water changes for a couple weeks and then a small one and stop any coral foods unless they start to pale.



definitly macros, any time my urchin finds the lettuce stuff its gone the next day, he dosent touch the branching stuff though.

Only a 20g tank, a mexican turbo would be huge in here haha!

And thats interesting, I can tell my nutrients are low because my glass only needs to be cleaned every 5-6 days at the moment. When I feed heavier in an attempt to raise N and P the film algae definitly grows faster and I have to clean every other day it seems.

Turbo snails get a bad rep sometimes. If you glue down your frags and only add one or two, they will do some work for you and you will never notice them.

I should have added that the film algae only gets bad when I have measurable phosphate and no nitrate. I assume adding nitrate causes another algae to grow and out competes the film algae causing its growth to slow down.