Nitrate/Nitrite/Ammonia Issues
- Thread starter kaoriblackheart
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A neat way to apply what I feel are updated cycling rules is create and test the inverse above:
take dry rocks and put dry sand in a paint bucket w saltwater matching temp and salinity above
add a fish or two like above
feed it once, check back in 24 hours its a gray smelly stinking mess.
that's an uncycled tank outcome.
where old cycling rules get it wrong, constantly, is they omit obvious ability to carry bioload and waste in favor of unverified non digital test kits.
There are no stuck cycles, that's a false claim aimed and selling bottle bac and it works to do just that.
take dry rocks and put dry sand in a paint bucket w saltwater matching temp and salinity above
add a fish or two like above
feed it once, check back in 24 hours its a gray smelly stinking mess.
that's an uncycled tank outcome.
where old cycling rules get it wrong, constantly, is they omit obvious ability to carry bioload and waste in favor of unverified non digital test kits.
There are no stuck cycles, that's a false claim aimed and selling bottle bac and it works to do just that.
Fritz was not needed, but not harmful. we track in the false reading thread how old cycling rules coincidentally lead us into circular retail purchases.
Jekyl
GSP is the devil and clowns are bad pets
I don't argue with your methods one bit. However in this particular case no ammonia or bacteria was added to the tank prior to fish being introduced.A neat way to apply what I feel are updated cycling rules is create and test the inverse above:
take dry rocks and put dry sand in a paint bucket w saltwater matching temp and salinity above
feed it once, check back in 24 hours its a gray smelly stinking mess.
where old cycling rules get it wrong, constantly, is they omit obvious ability to carry bioload and waste in favor of unverified non digital test kits.
here's how bac get in. without being added, given only time (the unassisted cycle, he's past this time above)
www.reef2reef.com
*that is an important thread for reef microbiology
Read MStevens posts. page 97 fwd not the prior ones
Cycles dont require anything other than water and 60 days at worst. this tank from the OP above is fed.
We have been royally ripped off in reefing by not being told about that mechanism above.
If they told us, and we believed it, we'd buy less of their reinforcement bacteria.
Steven Fed nothing
dosed nothing
he input water and time from a cycling chart, and what that cycling chart said did occur and we calibrated his ammonia to work correctly before accepting it as fact. I consider MStevens easy task shown above to be perhaps the most important post on reefing microbiology we can source, it means stuff is free
we get nothing free from old cycling rules, we get fear and re purchase impulses yep. This tank is fully cycled a while ago, welcome to non digital false read api/google is littered with them.
Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact
Did the online calc indicate to use one mil in the tank for your gallonage
www.reef2reef.com
*that is an important thread for reef microbiology
Read MStevens posts. page 97 fwd not the prior ones
Cycles dont require anything other than water and 60 days at worst. this tank from the OP above is fed.
We have been royally ripped off in reefing by not being told about that mechanism above.
If they told us, and we believed it, we'd buy less of their reinforcement bacteria.
Steven Fed nothing
dosed nothing
he input water and time from a cycling chart, and what that cycling chart said did occur and we calibrated his ammonia to work correctly before accepting it as fact. I consider MStevens easy task shown above to be perhaps the most important post on reefing microbiology we can source, it means stuff is free
we get nothing free from old cycling rules, we get fear and re purchase impulses yep. This tank is fully cycled a while ago, welcome to non digital false read api/google is littered with them.
Last edited:
kaoriblackheart
New Member
Unfortunately one of the clownfish did not make it. The other one is sticking it out. It's got very labored breathing and is sticking it close to staying in one spot, but it's still swimming a bit here and there. I think the anemone is done for, but I can't tell.
in order to prevent fish loss in the future, see the disease forum: fallow and quarantine. you can see after reading there any link, that setting up your dry rock system on retail feed is certain to kill the fish in a few mos after setup. (not cycle related, this cycle is done.)
One reason you would not want to add more bac is they have no attachment points to take on
they're swirling around, competing for oxygen, and soon to be floc'd or skimmed or water changed out, they literally cannot help anything. Were your ammonia to be correct, say you ran a digital seneye test vs the wrong one above, you'd do a water change and remove the dead animals to lower it vs adding bacteria.
by rule we can clearly see in MSteven's example link, after 60 days all surfaces are full up
just because a reefer adds bacteria out of response doesnt mean its got anywhere to go and set up shop, its now extra bioload the tank must carry and process. the water is becoming less pure, due to reaction effects.
what you do here above is change water
re fallow the tank
only add qt fish, now you're in line with this forum:
www.reef2reef.com
you are currently polar opposite out of line from that forum.
One reason you would not want to add more bac is they have no attachment points to take on
they're swirling around, competing for oxygen, and soon to be floc'd or skimmed or water changed out, they literally cannot help anything. Were your ammonia to be correct, say you ran a digital seneye test vs the wrong one above, you'd do a water change and remove the dead animals to lower it vs adding bacteria.
by rule we can clearly see in MSteven's example link, after 60 days all surfaces are full up
just because a reefer adds bacteria out of response doesnt mean its got anywhere to go and set up shop, its now extra bioload the tank must carry and process. the water is becoming less pure, due to reaction effects.
what you do here above is change water
re fallow the tank
only add qt fish, now you're in line with this forum:
Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis
A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.
www.reef2reef.com
you are currently polar opposite out of line from that forum.
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Azedenkae
Valuable Member
Sorry to hear.
What is the size of the tank? Any chance of a 100% water change? At this point it may be necessary to just get rid of as much ammonia as possible through that method, even if that means potential swing in parameters. But yeah, does not sound good.
Azedenkae
Valuable Member
Okay, let me try to get through to you. It never worked, I don't know why I bother, but well, I do hope that you could try to actually listen for once and mull over it.
Mate, you gotta assess the situation rather than just regurgitating information that does not necessarily apply to the situation. So, please try to listen to this: if it is fish disease, the anemone would not look bad at the same time as the fish like that, and deteriorate in tandem with fish. If something affects multiple live stock that are very different from each other, then it is far more likely to be predominantly due to parameters than due to disease that is often specific to particular types of organisms.
On a note re: bacteria, you keep on ignoring that nitrifiers adapted to freshwater systems tend to not do well in saline systems. Here's one paper on that: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0144860920300340, easily found through a Google Scholar search.
kaoriblackheart
New Member
Update: the anemone is stunningly gorgeous! The other clownfish is still not doing great, he's still laying on his side breathing heavy. The Nitrite levels seem to have gone up, Nitrate has gone down a bit (it's less red) and Ammonia has gone down to about 8.0ppm. I'm not sure why everything is still high after the water change, ammo lock, pristine, and fritz.
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Azedenkae
Valuable Member
Could have just been super high to begin with, and so despite a big water change, you still read it as max (after all, once parameters are off the charts, 20ppm and 10ppm ammonia for example would still read as '8ppm'). What size aquarium was this again?Update: the anemone is stunningly gorgeous! The other clownfish is still not doing great, he's still laying on his side breathing heavy. The Nitrite levels seem to have gone up, Nitrate has gone down a bit (it's less red) and Ammonia has gone down to about 8.0ppm. I'm not sure why everything is still high after the water change, ammo lock, pristine, and fritz.
kaoriblackheart
New Member
Update: the anemone is stunningly gorgeous! The other clownfish is still not doing great, he's still laying on his side breathing heavy. The Nitrite levels seem to have gone up, Nitrate has gone down a bit (it's less red) and Ammonia has gone down to about 8.0ppm. I'm not sure why everything is still high after the water change, ammo lock, pristine, and fritz.
10 gallon
Azedenkae
Valuable Member
Hm... can you do a 100% water change then? That amount of water should not be too large for a 100% water change. Only way I'd see the clownfish might survive at this point.
Jekyl
GSP is the devil and clowns are bad pets
What light are you using? Seems awfully white for a reef light.Update: the anemone is stunningly gorgeous! The other clownfish is still not doing great, he's still laying on his side breathing heavy. The Nitrite levels seem to have gone up, Nitrate has gone down a bit (it's less red) and Ammonia has gone down to about 8.0ppm. I'm not sure why everything is still high after the water change, ammo lock, pristine, and fritz.
10 gallon
kaoriblackheart
New Member
I can try, I just don't want to kill the anemone either since it's doing so well.
kaoriblackheart
New Member
It was just the led lighting that came with the tank when I purchased it.
Jekyl
GSP is the devil and clowns are bad pets
Sadly that will not be enough. Anemone are photosynthetic like plants are. I would look into at least getting some black box lighting or an AI prime if you intend to keep coral/anemone.
kaoriblackheart
New Member
Excellent! I will investigate that.
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