NoPox and Phosphate limitations

[Treefer32]

I'm switching from Straight vodka dosing to NOPOX dosing on my 340 gallon reef. I'm planning to do a mixture of vodka, vinegar and RODI. I plan to keep the same dosing regiment 16 ml per day on my mixed reef. My nitrates test out at 30 (week over week just straight vodka dosing) and phosphates test out .1 ppm.

I"m hoping that by adding vinegar to the mix something will happen. What should I see happen within 7 days of switching from 16 ml per day of straight vodka vs. 16 ml of vodka / Vinegar / RODI mixture at 16 ml per day?


How much phosphate will be consumed to lower nitrate? E.g. is .1ppm phosphates enough to lower nitrates by 10 if it will work at all?

 

[blaxsun]

I didn't see where NOPOX entered into the equation...?

 

[Treefer32]

I didn't see where NOPOX entered into the equation...?

I may be wrong, but I thought NOPOx was a proprietary blend of vodka, vinegar, and RODI water. I just made my own. Just curious if low phosphate will limit effectiveness of dosing (either just vodka or vodka and vinegar combined).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

NOPOX also has somr minor components (methanol and isopropanol) which i think can be ignored.

"What should I see happen within 7 days of switching from 16 ml per day of straight vodka vs. 16 ml of vodka / Vinegar / RODI mixture at 16 ml per day?"

You need to clarify what exactly that means. It literally suggests you are dosing much less organic now.

 

[Treefer32]

I was trying to be too succinct. I've been dosing straight vodka for 6 months I'm not sure if it's doing anything, my nitrates slowly rise week to week regardless how much vodka I dose. I could go to dosing more straight vodka, I think heard up to 30 ml per day was safe in 300 gallons. (1 ml per 10 gallons of water?)

I could do that, but then even vodka gets costly. So, I was thinking about the nopox consept of vinegar and vodka. Doing something similar, or straight sugar.

So, my question is, do I need to increase my dosing of the vinegar / vodka mixture to be at the same bacterial population levels I was at? Can they remain the same, or does dosing need to be decreased to maintain the current bacteria load?

Then, the second question, as I'm trying to understand the biology, chemistry, and natural processes of what's happening, should I expect to see nitrates fall or rise with switching the dosing mixture? Or am I phosphate limited with 30 nitrates to .1 phosphates. I believe bacteria consume N and P in a ratio. And if I have too few phosphates, is it possible I just can't reduce nitrates any further through any carbon dosing?

what else would cause my nitrates to stall out if not insufficient phosphates when I've been dosing this long? All tests done with Hana ULR Phosphate tester and HR Nitrate tester.

Alk is remaining stable @ 8dkh regardless what carbon source I dose (So far).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was trying to be too succinct. I've been dosing straight vodka for 6 months I'm not sure if it's doing anything, my nitrates slowly rise week to week regardless how much vodka I dose. I could go to dosing more straight vodka, I think heard up to 30 ml per day was safe in 300 gallons. (1 ml per 10 gallons of water?)

I could do that, but then even vodka gets costly. So, I was thinking about the nopox consept of vinegar and vodka. Doing something similar, or straight sugar.

So, my question is, do I need to increase my dosing of the vinegar / vodka mixture to be at the same bacterial population levels I was at? Can they remain the same, or does dosing need to be decreased to maintain the current bacteria load?

Then, the second question, as I'm trying to understand the biology, chemistry, and natural processes of what's happening, should I expect to see nitrates fall or rise with switching the dosing mixture? Or am I phosphate limited with 30 nitrates to .1 phosphates. I believe bacteria consume N and P in a ratio. And if I have too few phosphates, is it possible I just can't reduce nitrates any further through any carbon dosing?

what else would cause my nitrates to stall out if not insufficient phosphates when I've been dosing this long? All tests done with Hana ULR Phosphate tester and HR Nitrate tester.

Alk is remaining stable @ 8dkh regardless what carbon source I dose (So far).

As a super rough guide, vinegar is 8 times less potent than vodka. So it takes a lot of vinegar to match vodka.

Organic carbon dosing can often take a good while to see a nitrate drop. Sometimes weeks.

But upping the dose is also fine.

You are certainly not phosphate limited at this time.

 

[Treefer32]

As a super rough guide, vinegar is 8 times less potent than vodka. So it takes a lot of vinegar to match vodka.

Organic carbon dosing can often take a good while to see a nitrate drop. Sometimes weeks.

But upping the dose is also fine.

You are certainly not phosphate limited at this time.

That helps. So, best bet would be to just continue upping vodka dose and see if nitrates start coming down. Is there a limit I shouldn't cross? Given I've been vodka dosing for 6 months I'm disappointed in its capabilities. I can try upping it weekly to see if nitrates start dropping at higher doses.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That helps. So, best bet would be to just continue upping vodka dose and see if nitrates start coming down. Is there a limit I shouldn't cross? Given I've been vodka dosing for 6 months I'm disappointed in its capabilities. I can try upping it weekly to see if nitrates start dropping at higher doses.

Don't get me wrong, I like vinegar, but both should work. At six months, I'd dose more. I settled with a dose of about 110 mL of vinegar a day to a similarly sized system. Your system is different and vodka is different, but I think 10 mL can be increased.

 

[Clownfishy]

Just for info, I find I get a lot of bacteria growing on the glass and bacteria clogging up my skimmer pumps and powerheads before I can get my phosphate levels below 0.15. I have a bare bottom setup so maybe I don't have enough surface area to support the dosing levels and increase in bacteria. Just something to watch for if switching to NOPOX.

 

[squirrelbaffler]

I dose DIY NoPox via an auto doser. I took a gallon vinegar jug, emptied it and put a liter of cheap vodka in it, fill remainder of gallon with white vinegar. I dose my 90 bare bottom reef 3 ml per 4 hours a day. I don’t use a skimmer, just a home made foam fractioning filter. I don’t run any carbon or GFO. Water is crystal clear and all inhabitants are happy.

All you need to watch is the amount of film on your glass. If it heavy, reduce your dosing. You’ll find the sweet spot for your bioload.

happy reefing