Replace glass or tank?

Fluid Designers · Feb 19, 2015

This Sucks! It sucks to spend good money on a product and wait patiently for it to arrive only to have problems once it does. In a perfect world none of us would ever have to deal with this. Unfortunately its not a perfect world. When bad things happen we have to deal with them. We may not like the process but there usually is some type of process to go through. This is what I have asked of Damian is to go through the process. We are trying to get everyone on the same page. The Builder, the distributor, the dealer and the customer. We need to gather all the facts and make the appropriate decisions. Damian has chosen to forgo the process and instead jump to threats and bad mouthing.
As the owner of Fluid Designers, I am here I guess to defend myself, my reputation and my company that I have worked very hard to build. Every glass tank posted on our FB page and on our website is a Planet tank. I truly have not had any issues with this company over the years. I have built 4 successful retail aquarium stores since the 1980's and pride myself on customer service. I say that to note that I understand what it means to take care of the customer.
Damian mentioned that it took him 4 months to get his tank. He didn't mention that it only took 4 weeks from us. Apparently Damian had issues with a prior dealer and that is why he sought us out. I never asked Damian what the issue was or why he chose not to deal with a local LFS I just gladly took him as a customer and did my best to get him what he wanted.
Before Damian received his tank and filter we communicated via email. 350+ emails to be exact. That's what we exchanged before the tank ever shipped. I did my best to respond promptly to each one of his concerns. In one of those emails I told Damien to make sure that he inspect the tank thoroughly before receiving, before the driver even leaves. The following is what Damian posted on our facebook page, the day after receiving his tank, after he signed a bill stating that it was received in good condition, and I quote:

"I purchased a sump and tank from these guys and couldn't be more pleased. I got screwed over by a local store on my tank and Dave was more then accomodating. Always replied to emails and took care of all my concerns. I have and will continue to recommend these guys! 2-14-15"

Of course he removed this post recently but I do have a photo available to prove my point. It wasn't till 24 hours later (from receiving the tank) that I received an email with picture stating that the back wall of his tank was cracked. (are we starting to see our dilemma here?)

The dilemma is, we have a customer who was originally happy on receiving his product. Then, mysteriously, a day later, the tank is cracked and Damian even told me that he is not sure how it happened but it did. That's the big issue here.
IMO, the aesthetics issue is really mute at this point. If that's what this was all about then we would certainly discuss the options. This is now about a damaged tank and how it got that way and who should be responsible.
I apologize for the long explanation, but I felt forced to put more info on the table. At this point, this situation is still being discussed and we will have to wait and see what the outcome is here.

"

Breakthecycle2 · Feb 19, 2015

My response to this one, was sent through email. I will keep everyone informed. But what I will see is the legal weed in Colorado might have gotten to Dave's head.

M&M · Feb 19, 2015

"A tank with a trimless bottom usually isn't pretty. Its not designed to be pretty and that's why its usually covered. Doesn't effect the strength or integrity."

Obviously you did not see Elos or Reef Savvy tank. Just that comment alone would turn me off from buying a rimless tank from you.

Breakthecycle2 · Feb 19, 2015

M&M said:
"A tank with a trimless bottom usually isn't pretty. Its not designed to be pretty and that's why its usually covered. Doesn't effect the strength or integrity."

Obviously you did not see Elos or Reef Savvy tank. Just that comment alone would turn me off from buying a rimless tank from you.

Thank you for bringing that up. What I never mentioned to them before was, my last tank was Elos system 120 (90 gallons). I paid the same amount for that tank and it was FLAWLESS. Not a drip of silicone out of place, not an uneven seem. NOTHING.

Breakthecycle2 · Feb 19, 2015

Still haven't heard anything.

saltyphish · Feb 19, 2015

And this is your response seriously? First off the car wreck would have been either driver at fault for the accident in which case insurance would take care of it. Unless of course the accident was the result of a defect in the vehicle then the company would have to not only replace the vehicle but also possibly be sued for other damages. Imo the crack is just another blemish for the tank. Those seams look horrible. Everything should be lined up perfectly, period! The lack of silicone on the eurobrace also adds to the lack of quality craftsmanship shown so far.

Harbor_Jer said:
Ok let me ask you this, you are a business owner if you buy a car and on your way have get in an accident. You go back to the dealer a few days later, should the dealership give you a new car no questions asked?

I would be happy to give you as many references you would like to show Planets build quality.

saltyphish · Feb 19, 2015

As a business owner you should always stand by the products you sell whether you manufactured it or not.

Breakthecycle2 · Feb 19, 2015

They clearly do not care. I Pm'd that Harbor_Jeff guy this morning asking how to contact him and I got nothing.

Diesel · Feb 19, 2015

Breakthecycle2 said:
They clearly do not care. I Pm'd that Harbor_Jeff guy this morning asking how to contact him and I got nothing.

I think you should give it a few days as they probably trying to figure out how come the tank got out like this.
You got the ball rolling in this thread now just let it roll and if it slows down you can kick it up again.

Breakthecycle2 · Feb 19, 2015

Diesel said:
I think you should give it a few days as they probably trying to figure out how come the tank got out like this.
You got the ball rolling in this thread now just let it roll and if it slows down you can kick it up again.

I can respect, however, how or why I was sent a poorly constructed item is not my problem. Here I sit with a $2600 paperweight in my living room.

Diesel · Feb 19, 2015

Breakthecycle2 said:
I can respect, however, how or why I was sent a poorly constructed item is not my problem. Here I sit with a $2600 paperweight in my living room.

I understand and I'm 100% behind you, you know that.
But sometimes give it some time.
For Planet there's a lot to gain here as they already lost and you have a lot of eyes on this thread.....1.111 views.

Breakthecycle2 · Feb 19, 2015

Diesel said:
I understand and I'm 100% behind you, you know that.
But sometimes give it some time.
For Planet there's a lot to gain here as they already lost and you have a lot of eyes on this thread.....1.111 views.

Words of wisdom as usual Ben. Thanks.

saltyphish · Feb 19, 2015

Good Advice here! Give them a few days.

Breakthecycle2 · Feb 19, 2015

As I said, I can respect that.

Newmariner · Feb 19, 2015

Damian, Ive read the entire thread. I purchased my tank from Envision Acrylics in Oregon, and Im in Texas. I know whats like to get a large tank shipped and be on pins and needles about it.

But something is kind of fishy. You didn't respond to what Dave mentioned. He states you posted to his Facebook page that the you couldn't be more pleased with the tank. You also state there was NO damage to the crate. I know it sucks, but honestly, how do you expect a new tank based on a crack that you signed off on, not once, but twice? The bill of laden from the shipping company is an agreement that you are accepting the shipment. Before I signed mine, and my tank is a little larger, it was 1100lbs shipped, I had the driver pop the crate, and we inspected it before I let him leave. I wasn't about to accept a tank that was imperfect. If the shipper was responsible, there would be damage to the crate. You stated there was none. So then the damage comes to the manufacturer, however, you signed off on the bill of laden stating it was fine, and then you signed off on Fluid Dynamics Facebook page stating you were happy. Then according to Dave 24 hours later you state there is a crack. Then you bring another reefer over and ya'll discover the poor seems and what not.

The problem is that Planet and Fluid Dynamics are looking at this that you accepted this tank with no flaws. You possibly moved the tank indoors and thats where the crack appeared. Maybe you set it on its back or corner trying to maneuver it inside. Now your 2600 dollar tank is a paper weight possibly due to your own actions. Im not saying this did happen, but this is what these two companies are questioning. And it is certainly understandable considering you signed off TWICE on it. It seems like you are wanting to have planet or dfw cover your mistake. And that is what they are debating on. Is the workmanship there on the tank? No. Not in my opinion. But thats not what you initially complained about. You initially complained about a crack, which didn't appear until after 24 hours after you said you were happy with it. So now the workmanship issues seem to be made a big deal to try to get you a new tank because your buddy came over and he dissed your tank, and now you want your money back. Again, Im not saying this is what happened, but from a business owners standpoint, this is what they are thinking.

My opinion? Id take dave's offer of getting a new back glass shipped to you, have a local silicone it in for you if you don't feel comfortable with it, and chalk it up as a learned lesson.

Breakthecycle2 · Feb 19, 2015

Newmariner said:
Damian, Ive read the entire thread. I purchased my tank from Envision Acrylics in Oregon, and Im in Texas. I know whats like to get a large tank shipped and be on pins and needles about it.

But something is kind of fishy. You didn't respond to what Dave mentioned. He states you posted to his Facebook page that the you couldn't be more pleased with the tank. You also state there was NO damage to the crate. I know it sucks, but honestly, how do you expect a new tank based on a crack that you signed off on, not once, but twice? The bill of laden from the shipping company is an agreement that you are accepting the shipment. Before I signed mine, and my tank is a little larger, it was 1100lbs shipped, I had the driver pop the crate, and we inspected it before I let him leave. I wasn't about to accept a tank that was imperfect. If the shipper was responsible, there would be damage to the crate. You stated there was none. So then the damage comes to the manufacturer, however, you signed off on the bill of laden stating it was fine, and then you signed off on Fluid Dynamics Facebook page stating you were happy. Then according to Dave 24 hours later you state there is a crack. Then you bring another reefer over and ya'll discover the poor seems and what not.

The problem is that Planet and Fluid Dynamics are looking at this that you accepted this tank with no flaws. You possibly moved the tank indoors and thats where the crack appeared. Maybe you set it on its back or corner trying to maneuver it inside. Now your 2600 dollar tank is a paper weight possibly due to your own actions. Im not saying this did happen, but this is what these two companies are questioning. And it is certainly understandable considering you signed off TWICE on it. It seems like you are wanting to have planet or dfw cover your mistake. And that is what they are debating on. Is the workmanship there on the tank? No. Not in my opinion. But thats not what you initially complained about. You initially complained about a crack, which didn't appear until after 24 hours after you said you were happy with it. So now the workmanship issues seem to be made a big deal to try to get you a new tank because your buddy came over and he dissed your tank, and now you want your money back. Again, Im not saying this is what happened, but from a business owners standpoint, this is what they are thinking.

My opinion? Id take dave's offer of getting a new back glass shipped to you, have a local silicone it in for you if you don't feel comfortable with it, and chalk it up as a learned lesson.

As far as my "fellow reefer" "dissing" my tank, he's not a friend. He owns a business here. He stated his opinion, things I didn't see. Its s straight shot from the curb into my living room. We even took the doors of prior to even beginning on bringing it inside, even though the entry way is 35" on the inside of the door frame. I am not accepting Dave's offer because who is going to pay the labor of around $1000? Not me. Why? Because I didn't do it. I don't know who did it, but it didn't happen here. I have $7000 in equipment sitting in my living room. I got screwed with the first builder because after three months he admitted he never even started it. Thats when I turned to Dave. My point? Is the fact I would have no issues paying for new glass if I did it and would have gladly accepted a new pane of glass offer. However, there is simply no denying that tank is crafted like crap. Further to my point, why am I going to pay all this money fix something that never should have been sent out as it was? Would you? Now, getting to the point about be "happy" about the tank. Your **** right I was. As previously stated, I waited a long time to get it. Why was the crack initially noticed? Only thing I can say is, its black and it wasnt until a light was shined on it that it was noticeable. That all being said, the crack isn't even the problem. What is baffling me is, there is no denying how it looks. How on earth was I supposed to inspect the seems, silicone, unpolished glass etc when it's sitting in a crate? The shipping company wasn't going to wait. I was concerned with it being broken. Based on their reputation, I thought I had zero reason to worry about build quality. Again, I am stating the facts. You are clearly entitled to your opinion as I am mine.

Newmariner · Feb 19, 2015

Breakthecycle2 said:
As far as my "fellow reefer" "dissing" my tank, he's not a friend. He owns a business here. He stated his opinion, things I didn't see. Its s straight shot from the curb into my living room. We even took the doors of prior to even beginning on bringing it inside, even though the entry way is 35" on the inside of the door frame. I am not accepting Dave's offer because who is going to pay the labor of around $1000? Not me. Why? Because I didn't do it. I don't know who did it, but it didn't happen here. I have $7000 in equipment sitting in my living room. I got screwed with the first builder because after three months he admitted he never even started it. Thats when I turned to Dave. My point? Is the fact I would have no issues paying for new glass if I did it and would have gladly accepted a new pane of glass offer. However, there is simply no denying that tank is crafted like crap. Further to my point, why am I going to pay all this money fix something that never should have been sent out as it was? Would you? Now, getting to the point about be "happy" about the tank. Your **** right I was. As previously stated, I waited a long time to get it. Why was the crack initially noticed? Only thing I can say is, its black and it wasnt until a light was shined on it that it was noticeable. That all being said, the crack isn't even the problem. What is baffling me is, there is no denying how it looks. How on earth was I supposed to inspect the seems, silicone, unpolished glass etc when it's sitting in a crate? The shipping company wasn't going to wait. I was concerned with it being broken. Based on their reputation, I thought I had zero reason to worry about build quality. Again, I am stating the facts. You are clearly entitled to your opinion as I am mine.

Why then did you wait to complain about the workmanship until after you emailed about the crack? After the other reefer showed up? These are things that would of been seen moving the tank inside. And would of been initially emailed to Dave and Planet about how it looked. But thats not what you did. What you did do is told Dave he you were pleased, waited 24 hours, found the crack which is understandable with a black back, and then had another reefer/business owner come over, and then you complained about the workmanship. If the workmanship was such an issue, why wouldn't that have been the very first thing you emailed Dave about? The crack would of then been a secondary issue to support the lack of build quality, not being the hinderance it has become.

Im not attacking you my friend. Im simply voicing what these other companies involved are probably dealing with trying to get this issue resolved for you. It "looks" like your making an issue of the workmanship after you found a crack that "nobody" knows how it got there. I will tell you from experience, if there is no damage to the crate, its not the shipping company's fault. That leaves the manufacturer, and you. You kind of hurt yourself when you accepted the shipment with no complaints, and then wrote on Facebook you were pleased with the tank. I hope this works out for you....

Breakthecycle2 · Feb 19, 2015

As far as the crack goes, don't you think it's possible that after sitting at the carriers warehouse in 20 degree weather for three days before delivery could have cause a barely visible crack to,spread once it was brought into a 72 degree house? I also requested pictures from Dave prior to shipping. To my knowledge Dave requested them from Planet and they apparently never sent them. I bought a sump from Dave prior to the tank arriving and he sent me pics prior to shipping because his guys made it.