Tank transfer or slow cycle and move things slowly?

[brandon429]

Hey neat idea good one. Per that thread above within 20 days any surface submerged in a reef tank takes on a full complement of cycling bac, the whole point of the thread was connecting his dry start rocks and sand only to reef water in his mega awesome 250 gallon mixed reef and then proving that new tank got ready solely off cycling bacteria all reefs have in the water (in direct contrast to a Macna talk telling us reef tank water has no bacteria to offer for cycling)

it probably happens before day twenty, a cycling chart says ammonia control sets in by day ten and we‘ve no reason to doubt them so far. We doubled the wait time just because he had so much $ on the line in the receiving tank.

he did not feed the new tank or add bottle bac, solely reef tank water cycled the new system rather quickly / free and effectively

in 20 days it’ll carry bioload, the new rock added, and you won’t need bottle bacteria for the items added. Nobody knows how long they need to sit to take on enough benthic micro life to suppress dinos like truly aged rock does

the jump start helps, you could even put it in the sump if one is there.

 

[t5Nitro]

How did the tank move go? I have a very similar process going now. 150 gallon holding tank from a 75 all in one move (nothing new added at the time, and it didn't skip a beat) and now it's getting transferred to a 170 at some point.

I have a new shallow sand bed in the 170, some old dry rock (not many, just enough to build a small sided rock structure). Then, I've been adding 3 caps of MB7 daily and 2-3 drops of Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride, figuring the bacteria need some food source.

I've got some fish coming likely in the next few weeks. I wanted to run the two systems independently for at least a few weeks after the new fish arrive to make sure they're all healthy and can establish themselves.

Questions:
1. Should I be moving some pieces of LR with softies on them from the holding tank to the new tank now or wait until a few days before the new fish arrive? There won't be too many of these since majority of the rock has SPS, and I'm keeping those in the holding tank for as long as possible.

2. I've got a handful of small cups of live sand that's been with me for the past 2-3 years that is now also in the bottom of the holding tank. Should I take those out, or at least a few of them, and place those into the new tank?

2a. I've also got the live sand activator package coming from IPSF end of this week that I will add to the new tank.

2b. edit: I also changed GFO (in media bag) in the holding tank and added the old media/bag into the sump of the new tank. I thought about doing the same for a filter sock that I have on the holding tank. Seems like there would be a lot of surface area and bacteria on there that may be beneficial? (I don't change them often. The current sock probably has been soaking in the holding tank for a month or better).

3. Keep adding MB7, stop the ammonium chloride if we're within a few weeks of new fish?

4. Have ready new saltwater to do what @vetteguy53081 mentioned and change possibly 2-3 gallons a day? I could even do small 1-2 gallon water changes on the holding tank and use that water to replace some of the new tank water. The new fish are bristletooth tang, blue throat trigger, and 3 chromis.

 

[Reef Altitude]

we recently did a very similar thing. we went from a 38 gallon tank to a 200 gallon and transfered everything in one go. We had two clowns, a tomini tang, a clown goby, a six line wrasse, inverts, and LPS/SPS.

we did also "cook" our new live rock for a month in a tote with power heads, heaters, and microbacter7. I did not trust the tote at first so the guest bath became a safety net.

the new live rock was actually dead live rock from 15 years ago so it had a pretty substantial ammonia spike that the bottle bacteria cleared up in around 2 days.

The new rock then went into the tank for a week while we were out of town (had guests come so we needed our bathroom back!)
The biggest trick was figuring out how to work the 38 gallon's rock into the new scape without having it to play around with.

I am decent at visualizing things so it was not impossible and we ended up with this:

As a final step, for 2 weeks, when we did water changes, I took the water from the new tank and used it in the old one, and put the old water in the new tank. The week before I swapped around 5 gallons per day until move day. I did not want to shock anything with a huge pH or kH change. I also verified the heaters were set to the same temp.

Everyone is alive and happy, none of the fish stopped eating or anything. We did add 2 biota yellow tangs a few weeks later. There has not been any horrible nutrient problems or outbreaks of algae or anything.

The little tank supported all of the life that was in it just fine so moving it entirely into the new one in one day did not change that.

Hope this helps!

 

[brandon429]

2. I've got a handful of small cups of live sand that's been with me for the past 2-3 years that is now also in the bottom of the holding tank. Should I take those out, or at least a few of them, and place those into the new tank?


That can kill your new setup. I have a post example of total fish kill from that. Install no unrinsed sand if you want total safety.

 

[t5Nitro]

I don't fully believe that when you can buy live sand in bags or in cases of indopacific sea farms they have an exceptional service. The cups of sand also came along for the ride, established in the 75 for 2 years, then along with the tank move to a holding tank. Nothing happened.

When I mean small, they probably actually hold only around 1 cup of sand each. They're old tea bottles that the bottoms were cut off and are holding some sand for bacterial colonization.

If you fully believe that you can wipe a tank with a cup of sand, then I can easily throw them away. I just wondered if moving the cup from one location to the new location would help kickstart the bioload. Except the order from IPSF will likely do the same.

 

[mrpontiac80]

How did the tank move go? I have a very similar process going now. 150 gallon holding tank from a 75 all in one move (nothing new added at the time, and it didn't skip a beat) and now it's getting transferred to a 170 at some point.

I have a new shallow sand bed in the 170, some old dry rock (not many, just enough to build a small sided rock structure). Then, I've been adding 3 caps of MB7 daily and 2-3 drops of Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride, figuring the bacteria need some food source.

I've got some fish coming likely in the next few weeks. I wanted to run the two systems independently for at least a few weeks after the new fish arrive to make sure they're all healthy and can establish themselves.

Questions:
1. Should I be moving some pieces of LR with softies on them from the holding tank to the new tank now or wait until a few days before the new fish arrive? There won't be too many of these since majority of the rock has SPS, and I'm keeping those in the holding tank for as long as possible.

2. I've got a handful of small cups of live sand that's been with me for the past 2-3 years that is now also in the bottom of the holding tank. Should I take those out, or at least a few of them, and place those into the new tank?

2a. I've also got the live sand activator package coming from IPSF end of this week that I will add to the new tank.

2b. edit: I also changed GFO (in media bag) in the holding tank and added the old media/bag into the sump of the new tank. I thought about doing the same for a filter sock that I have on the holding tank. Seems like there would be a lot of surface area and bacteria on there that may be beneficial? (I don't change them often. The current sock probably has been soaking in the holding tank for a month or better).

3. Keep adding MB7, stop the ammonium chloride if we're within a few weeks of new fish?

4. Have ready new saltwater to do what @vetteguy53081 mentioned and change possibly 2-3 gallons a day? I could even do small 1-2 gallon water changes on the holding tank and use that water to replace some of the new tank water. The new fish are bristletooth tang, blue throat trigger, and 3 chromis.

Well I’m still waiting on the new tank. It should be here next weekend by the 20th if everything works out.

 

[mrpontiac80]

Also, I really like the idea of taking water change old water from the 65 gallon and using it in the new tank. If for no other reason, then to just help fill it up without using a full box of salt on the initial fill.
As for the softies on small rocks, I figured I’d do the same. But will likely move everything at once just because of my light and flow situation. I just don’t have the funds to run out and buy expensive lights. So I’m going to have to move my reefbreeders 48” photon v2 over to the new tank. It still won’t be enough but I guarantee it will be sufficient for what transfers.

 

[muggle0981]

Transferred a 120 to 180g directly

Added about 100lb carib sea life rock to my existing rock

reused as much water from 120 as possible-

new sand

did see slight cycle based on some algae growth on sandbed

all livestock and corals made it except 2 small toadstools that wouldnt open

my wxperience-every system diffetent

 

[t5Nitro]

Well I’m still waiting on the new tank. It should be here next weekend by the 20th if everything works out.

Also, I really like the idea of taking water change old water from the 65 gallon and using it in the new tank. If for no other reason, then to just help fill it up without using a full box of salt on the initial fill.
As for the softies on small rocks, I figured I’d do the same. But will likely move everything at once just because of my light and flow situation. I just don’t have the funds to run out and buy expensive lights. So I’m going to have to move my reefbreeders 48” photon v2 over to the new tank. It still won’t be enough but I guarantee it will be sufficient for what transfers.

Awesome. To give some anecdotal information, that's how I transferred my 75 into the 150 holding tank. Filled the holding tank about half with new saltwater. Temperatue and SG the same then simply moved everything all at once. I had to do it that way as it was a relocation to new state. Nothing skipped a beat. Plus, I think you have way more LR than I do, so that's even better.

-------------------------------------------------

Totally get what you mean about running two separate systems. I'd rather do the same thing now and do a total transfer. Cost alone and the work of having two running systems is a lot. I'm hopeful to do it very temporarily as I introduce new, more gentle, fish so that the new tank serves mostly as an observation tank. I want to make sure they're healthy, eating, and no signs of disease over a few weeks time before I introduce all my old fish that have been with me for a long time. I'd hate to get them all sick so I opted this route. And yeah, it took maybe 6-6.5 gallons of salt to get the new tank to 1.026.

It also seems a bit risky for the new fish to go in a tank without adding all the old rocks and whatnot. So I'm hopeful the IPSF activator, MB7, putting holding tank media bags and socks in the new sump and moving a few rocks and softies over will be adequate to the bioload of 2 medium fish. The 3 small chromis im sure won't add much to the load.

 

[brandon429]

Here's how it works

You can customize any aspect of tank transfer and it'll work out 96% of the time. The 4% losses happen due to customizing the documented way to move tanks without losses at all.

Someone who documents a move of their own system isn't likely to incur a loss no matter how they customize. It's a rare, one off event

Someone who moves reef tanks for others is likely to encounter losses because of volume and frequency of jobs logged, nobody wants to be in the 4% category, especially someone with a twenty thousand dollar sps reef.

It's not like you have ten choices of online move tank guides that use other people's reefs: you only have options for customization coming from single home move reef examples.

If you want to copy what works 100% with no loss rate, only one tank transfer thread exists for that on the internet, and they move no unrinsed sand. We take calculated risks or we don't, that's honestly how it breaks down

If your rocks are made free of all attached waste and moved clean, and if your sand is 100% cloudless rinsed before moving, no loss example patterns can be found for that failing
It's a perfect system with no losses, that's what a twenty thousand dollar sps reef owner wants.

 

[vetteguy53081]

How did the tank move go? I have a very similar process going now. 150 gallon holding tank from a 75 all in one move (nothing new added at the time, and it didn't skip a beat) and now it's getting transferred to a 170 at some point.

I have a new shallow sand bed in the 170, some old dry rock (not many, just enough to build a small sided rock structure). Then, I've been adding 3 caps of MB7 daily and 2-3 drops of Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride, figuring the bacteria need some food source.

I've got some fish coming likely in the next few weeks. I wanted to run the two systems independently for at least a few weeks after the new fish arrive to make sure they're all healthy and can establish themselves.

Questions:
1. Should I be moving some pieces of LR with softies on them from the holding tank to the new tank now or wait until a few days before the new fish arrive? There won't be too many of these since majority of the rock has SPS, and I'm keeping those in the holding tank for as long as possible.

2. I've got a handful of small cups of live sand that's been with me for the past 2-3 years that is now also in the bottom of the holding tank. Should I take those out, or at least a few of them, and place those into the new tank?

2a. I've also got the live sand activator package coming from IPSF end of this week that I will add to the new tank.

2b. edit: I also changed GFO (in media bag) in the holding tank and added the old media/bag into the sump of the new tank. I thought about doing the same for a filter sock that I have on the holding tank. Seems like there would be a lot of surface area and bacteria on there that may be beneficial? (I don't change them often. The current sock probably has been soaking in the holding tank for a month or better).

3. Keep adding MB7, stop the ammonium chloride if we're within a few weeks of new fish?

4. Have ready new saltwater to do what @vetteguy53081 mentioned and change possibly 2-3 gallons a day? I could even do small 1-2 gallon water changes on the holding tank and use that water to replace some of the new tank water. The new fish are bristletooth tang, blue throat trigger, and 3 chromis.

1-2 would suffice, in fact im doing a 2 gallon today

 

[Reef Altitude]

Here's how it works

You can customize any aspect of tank transfer and it'll work out 96% of the time. The 4% losses happen due to customizing the documented way to move tanks without losses at all.

Someone who documents a move of their own system isn't likely to incur a loss no matter how they customize. It's a rare, one off event

Someone who moves reef tanks for others is likely to encounter losses because of volume and frequency of jobs logged, nobody wants to be in the 4% category, especially someone with a twenty thousand dollar sps reef.

It's not like you have ten choices of online move tank guides that use other people's reefs: you only have options for customization coming from single home move reef examples.

If you want to copy what works 100% with no loss rate, only one tank transfer thread exists for that on the internet, and they move no unrinsed sand. We take calculated risks or we don't, that's honestly how it breaks down

If your rocks are made free of all attached waste and moved clean, and if your sand is 100% cloudless rinsed before moving, no loss example patterns can be found for that failing
It's a perfect system with no losses, that's what a twenty thousand dollar sps reef owner wants.

We did siphon out all the sand and use around 25 gallons of old tank water to rinse it until it was clear water even after aggressive stirring. Glad to hear that's the right way to do it! It just seemed like a good time to really clean all of it.
¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

 

[brandon429]

Don't think I'm being nit picky pls

This is only in case readers copy methods here without telling us

Siphoning out sand with water and life in the tank is absolutely dangerous bc it upwells waste clouds of detritus in the presence of life.

It mostly works, but not always, and has killed fish and shrimp before. Corals usually tolerate waste clouding temporarily without dying but fish really can be harmed if they're not removed before the sandbed is disturbed

On page one of the transfer thread we list some losses/ pains from any type of disturbance of sand with life in the tank, and then all the other pages are disassembly moves where animals are removed first (along with rocks if you have to, to reduce hiding spaces allowing catch) and sand comes out only after all life has been removed from the system. Those are 100% safe transfers as many pages as the thread will ever run

It's catch what you can initially

Hold in covered totes, all system rock and sand in place

As tank water drains further (you can transport and move used water from top clean area but not any clouded water, and we don't even do that we use 100% all new water matching temp and salinity only) you can pull some rocks out to catch hiding fish. Clouding and risk starts now, lifted rocks usually have waste clouds under them.

Get out what you can now, into totes

Final rocks come out as water is nearly drained

Final disassembly is now low water, sand, no life. Now take out sand and either toss it/ or prepare new sand with the tap water rinse shown on every job

You can also tap water rinse the old sand, final rinse in salt water to evacuate the tap (takes hours in prep either way, new or old sand)

Rocks are rinsed in saltwater to jet off waste attached before transport, use metal knives to pick out and scrape off algae, do prep surgery on them using knives not brushes before moving

Move all animals to new home/ place/ tank

Set back up, it's totally cloudless instantly at the start. Use no bottle bac, these are the patterns for 50 pages. I know it sounds nit picky to change details but I give you my word we killed a few reefs at nano-reef.com moving tanks with the custom mode, rtr got the final method which is now honed into total control even if it's a $20K sps reef

*lighting is re ramped, not set at same power in the new tank* this is where many people bleached corals... keeping the previous PAR the old tank earned over time. This is why BRS couldn't effectively remove or swap their sandbed, and told their readers it wasn't safe to do so, they didn't know you had to start low light power in the new tank which is totally clean now vs the old wasteful system*

The jobs:

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

You can see now the steps are exactly the same whether we're beating dinos or cyano (a rip clean) or doing sandbed swaps, or moves or upgrades. They differ in no way, it's all disassembly cleaning with tap water rinses and light re ramps.

This is the only method we found that readers can copy without telling us details in a live time coached tank transfer.

 

[brandon429]

In my opinion this should make anyone rethink using sandbeds at all, look at the risk they bring. No bare bottom reefer goes through this risk

A sandbed sitting there isn't a risk, a sandbed disturbed sure is for 4% of keepers/ my guesstimate

I have about an eight inch deep sandbed. But my reef only weighs ten pounds full running and stocked / that's easy to rip clean

I wouldn't own a large reef with a sandbed.

 

[mrpontiac80]

So my tank delivery has been delayed and as of now I’m hoping I see it next week.
I have a question about light though.
So currently my light is 65% intense which translates to 200-300 par average at the top of my rocks. This is accurate numbers from a par meter. If I re ramp the lights, how low is recommended to start? Half the current par levels? And increase say 10% weekly or ?

Also. Obviously I want to match salinity, alk, cal, temp and stuff… but should I worry about trying to match nitrate and phosphates as well? My numbers are higher than most like. Nitrate—20 ppm. Phosphate .18 ppm

 

[brandon429]

In all the pages of the sand rinse thread we only matched temp and salinity the whole time

calcium alk nitrate P can be tuned after full installation

I would cut your light power in half for sure, more is better for the ramp up over the next week and don’t even arrive back where its at now for about a month no joke. Slow is safe

for some link not yet discovered dropping light and working up slowly accounts for all those other params and doesn’t bleach corals.

it’s ideal because right now on any reef here the party could drop light power 50% and ramp up over a week with no harm, it’s the clouds on the reef week seen in nature a million times

it happens to coincide with the safety of setting back up the tank formerly used to balancing its waste stores now with them totally gone

 

[mrpontiac80]

In all the pages of the sand rinse thread we only matched temp and salinity the whole time

calcium alk nitrate P can be tuned after full installation

I would cut your light power in half for sure, more is better for the ramp up over the next week and don’t even arrive back where its at now for about a month no joke. Slow is safe

for some link not yet discovered dropping light and working up slowly accounts for all those other params and doesn’t bleach corals.

it’s ideal because right now on any reef here the party could drop light power 50% and ramp up over a week with no harm, it’s the clouds on the reef week seen in nature a million times

it happens to coincide with the safety of setting back up the tank formerly used to balancing its waste stores now with them totally gone

I hadn’t thought of the lowering of light intensity prior to you mentioning it but I feel like I’ve heard Jake Adams mention that also. I know that low light is better than too much so I’ll adhere to that during a transfer.