Temp of water on arrival of livestock order- how cold is too cold?

[ReeferAl]

I recently ordered some invertebrates on line, This included urchins, hermits, snails and a cleaner shrimp. The order was being shipped from Pennsylvania to Wisconsin and weather was predicted to be seasonable for early March. When the order arrived, the water temp was 69degF. The cleaner shrimp and one of the urchins were dead. I suspect many of the snails were also dead but that's harder to determine since they can stay closed up for several days and be ok. The price of the shrimp and urchin was reimbursed but I'm sure there have been other losses as well.

It seems that the shipping method should have been designed to keep the water warmer than this but there was only 1 heat pack, insulation was only 1" thick (the low end of what I've seen- it is sometimes as much as 1.5" IME), and the box was quite small without a lot of water in each bag. Is it reasonable for a shipper to expect that the livestock would survive that much of a temp drop?

Allen

 

[Saltyreef]

I recently ordered some invertebrates on line, This included urchins, hermits, snails and a cleaner shrimp. The order was being shipped from Pennsylvania to Wisconsin and weather was predicted to be seasonable for early March. When the order arrived, the water temp was 69degF. The cleaner shrimp and one of the urchins were dead. I suspect many of the snails were also dead but that's harder to determine since they can stay closed up for several days and be ok. The price of the shrimp and urchin was reimbursed but I'm sure there have been other losses as well.

It seems that the shipping method should have been designed to keep the water warmer than this but there was only 1 heat pack, insulation was only 1" thick (the low end of what I've seen- it is sometimes as much as 1.5" IME), and the box was quite small without a lot of water in each bag. Is it reasonable for a shipper to expect that the livestock would survive that much of a temp drop?

Allen

69 isnt that cold but for inverts it may have been and who knows how long the temp was like that for and if it was swinging vs just dropping. Also, when theres not much water in the bags, the water gets much colder faster.

There could have been a few variables but the one that always keeps repeating are the lack of small animal rated 40hr heatpacks for overnight shipments.
24h and 36h packs simply wont cut it, especially if its extra cold outside.

 

[Tamberav]

Wisconsin weather was crappy the last few days. I would have delayed shipment till this week when it should be 40s.

Relying on heat packs sucks… basically too little and they get too cold but just throwing in an extra can also cook everything. They don’t just stay a nice temp.. they can get pretty hot and temp swings all over.

 

[ReeferAl]

Wisconsin weather was crappy the last few days. I would have delayed shipment till this week when it should be 40s.

The order was a little over a week ago when the weather was more seasonable- upper 30's to low 40's. I purposely waited to order any livestock until early March- I don't order in Dec, Jan or Feb. I have ordered from other vendors in the past and the packaging was much better with better results.

 

[Tamberav]

The order was a little over a week ago when the weather was more seasonable- upper 30's to low 40's. I purposely waited to order any livestock until early March- I don't order in Dec, Jan or Feb. I have ordered from other vendors in the past and the packaging was much better with better results.

Fair enough. I am in need of some snails myself but honestly still waiting. Maybe end of March or such. Night time temps need to be pretty good through entire transit so night too on every state.

Post 24 here shows temp in boxes with different number of heat packs and so on. Kind of interesting.

Maybe two heat packs would have saved them but 69 isn’t even that cold so surprised anything died tbh.

Dr Reef Quarantined Fish

Its really not where you live that matters. 1st thing Fish travels at night. I get email after email saying weather tomorrow at my location is 80F (or warm) so should'nt be a problem. Well they forget fish travels at night. when temp are at the lowest. We pack our fish in the morning and by...

www.reef2reef.com

There are two venders I can think of with worse packing than you described. I do stay awayyyyyy from them in anything but nice weather. Neither uses styro, they use those insulated bags.

 

[Saltyreef]

The order was a little over a week ago when the weather was more seasonable- upper 30's to low 40's. I purposely waited to order any livestock until early March- I don't order in Dec, Jan or Feb. I have ordered from other vendors in the past and the packaging was much better with better results.

You and the seller should do a better job with checking weather.
I forcast a whole week out before i ship anything.

Its 23 degrees in lake wisconsin today with a low of 9 degrees.
Even a high of 48 coming up during a rainstorm there tuesday and wednesday i still would have been skeptical to ship.

I wouldnt have shipped anything to you knowing there was a snow storm coming.

Maybe a thick clamshell Uline box would have been better but normally good sellers will do a bit more to ensure the weather doesnt become a problem to warrent their use.

Sometimes i even ship with no heatpack. Weather bug is key!

 

[ReeferAl]

You and the seller should do a better job with checking weather.
I forcast a whole week out before i ship anything.

I DID check out the forecast. There were no storms or unusual temperature swings coming. It was weather that has given other vendors no problem with shipping. The vendors I usually use did not have most of the livestock in stock so I tried a different vendor. Perhaps they didn't check the weather to determine what was necessary to ship safely or to say they couldn't ship safely and would have to wait for spring. I would have preferred to have them say that they weren't capable of packing adequately for shipping in early March rather than sending a half dead shipment.

Allen

 

[ScubaFish802]

Not sure about inverts, but I was pretty impressed with Tidal Gardens handling of cold weather - and shipping/weather awareness in general. This was right on the invoice.

The only time I have issues up here in the northeast in the winter is when people ship with zero insulation or heat sources - I also always make an effort to alert the seller so they can package appropriately.
The people who ship to me in just cardboard I don’t return to

 

[Saltyreef]

I DID check out the forecast. There were no storms or unusual temperature swings coming. It was weather that has given other vendors no problem with shipping. The vendors I usually use did not have most of the livestock in stock so I tried a different vendor. Perhaps they didn't check the weather to determine what was necessary to ship safely or to say they couldn't ship safely and would have to wait for spring. I would have preferred to have them say that they weren't capable of packing adequately for shipping in early March rather than sending a half dead shipment.

Allen

That preference sounds like a good one to me lol

 

[fish farmer]

Not sure about inverts, but I was pretty impressed with Tidal Gardens handling of cold weather - and shipping/weather awareness in general. This was right on the invoice.

The only time I have issues up here in the northeast in the winter is when people ship with zero insulation or heat sources - I also always make an effort to alert the seller so they can package appropriately.
The people who ship to me in just cardboard I don’t return to

That's gonna be around the high temp tomorrow in Brandon,VT. I got needs for all sorts of critters....but waiting for April.

 

[ReeferAl]

Not sure about inverts, but I was pretty impressed with Tidal Gardens handling of cold weather - and shipping/weather awareness in general. This was right on the invoice.

The only time I have issues up here in the northeast in the winter is when people ship with zero insulation or heat sources - I also always make an effort to alert the seller so they can package appropriately.
The people who ship to me in just cardboard I don’t return to

That is impressive. I'll have to check them out.

Allen