The microbiology of reef tank cycling.

[Gogoggansgo]

The nitrites went up. But otherwise everything is going well. I’ll will keep monitoring

 

[brandon429]

now is a good time to do a partial water change, for the purpose of exporting waste in the new tank. Its ripe for early algae challenges soon...full lighting, reflective surfaces + dissolved organics.
ideally we're getting ready to have export as a normal part of weekly work at least. bi weekly at the worst, but the tanks that exchange water as early action are strong and resilient to early invasion, the hands off ones get the uglies (never allow any reef to house potential invaders, uglies are optional for all reefs)

during water changes you can watch for areas that kick up waste/cause clouding if any and remedy that along the way to tuning perfection, so you can access the tank as needed to kill the algae when it comes vs dosing things to the water. The ideal early reef, before packed with corals, has a sandbed that cannot be clouded when you reach in and grab a handful and drop it in the water (because it was pre rinsed before use) and its rocks if shaken about midwater don't cast off any waste cloud (uglies fuel... another reason hands off gets the uglies- they keep the clouding on purpose)



The cycle is ok, nitrite never factors anyway (we're ammonia watchers) so now is the time to prep for algae and early cyano through basic water changes as routine, and access to the substrate when needed. great skip cycle work. the tests indicate can begin normal reefing, if you did a 100% water change it would not reset your filter at all. You can do 100% water changes every day of its life from here on out and it will never reset the filter, they're set.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

now is a good time to do a partial water change, for the purpose of exporting waste in the new tank. Its ripe for early algae challenges soon...full lighting, reflective surfaces + dissolved organics.
ideally we're getting ready to have export as a normal part of weekly work at least. bi weekly at the worst, but the tanks that exchange water as early action are strong and resilient to early invasion, the hands off ones get the uglies (never allow any reef to house potential invaders, uglies are optional for all reefs)

during water changes you can watch for areas that kick up waste/cause clouding if any and remedy that along the way to tuning perfection, so you can access the tank as needed to kill the algae when it comes vs dosing things to the water. The ideal early reef, before packed with corals, has a sandbed that cannot be clouded when you reach in and grab a handful and drop it in the water (because it was pre rinsed before use) and its rocks if shaken about midwater don't cast off any waste cloud (uglies fuel... another reason hands off gets the uglies- they keep the clouding on purpose)



The cycle is ok, nitrite never factors anyway (we're ammonia watchers) so now is the time to prep for algae and early cyano through basic water changes as routine, and access to the substrate when needed. great skip cycle work. the tests indicate can begin normal reefing, if you did a 100% water change it would not reset your filter at all. You can do 100% water changes every day of its life from here on out and it will never reset the filter, they're set.

Will do I’ll retest in the morning and if the level is the same I’ll do a 25 percent water change, 15 gallons. But the tank is doing well

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Yup time for a water change

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Update

Yesterday my LFS told me too not water change till the nitrites drop them do a change. Just hang in there the good thing is i haven’t seen an increase over yesterday’s results. Holding around 1PPM which isn’t good long term but the tank is holding up fine. I will report if anything significant happens i hope by Saturday they levels drop too zero so i can do a big change.

 

[brandon429]

but at that point we diverge from the LFS...this is a no test kit alters our path thread.

we make calls solely off the time the substrates have been underwater, and only ammonia is factored for reasons listed on post #1, many links worth of nitrite misreads




we would ask them how they've verified your nitrite tests before making a recommending action...did they run a red sea, or salifert compare for example

we don't factor any behavior other than what ammonia has been doing predictably because using nitrate, nitrite and ammonia together allows for 3x misreads - only ammonia matters in reef cycling/16 pages

Any source recommending otherwise thinks that cycles vary in timeframe establishment beyond 30 days after using boosters; they don't, we are here to show that cycles don't vary when the right tests are administered
we will know a non compliant tank has been found when their ammonia doesn't follow a prediction before we even see a picture of their tank or ask about a reading...once they state time underwater, we state if they're cycled or not.




Anyone can report any test reports they like, however, we have nitrite noncompliance logged out to seven months in one particular tank he quit updating eventually (it never was elevated, he used prime water conditioner false point of sale) that's why we don't use anything beyond ammonia, and the test isn't expected to read zero for everyone its just predicted/expected not to make incremental daily up movements past a certain submersion date.

All good so far, your tank followed the path that testless cycling confers. We don't even need to know the rough estimates that titrations provide for ammonia...we can use known submersion times + a big water change at the end to cycle all tanks. the reason we've been accepting tests so far, for ammonia, is to show how the prediction panned out to the test movement not the zero point. zero points vary tester to tester, but all testers can indicate an ammonia movement up, so the way to use titration testing in reef assessment is to look for upward motion, we don't expect 2 or 3 different brand test kits to register an equal zero. some will show partial low level ammonia and some will show zero.
*wastewater is always expected to show skewed measurements vs the post water change measure, same bioload in the tank

that's why we have a water change before you assess, these are means that make hobby test kits line up. We're informing your LFS on the updates lol, send em here.

your tank is cycled, ergo you can change the water 100% the next five days in a row if you like, and it can't uncycle

However its ok if you don't; store up any nitrate and feed the system early also not a prob. since the tank is cycled, it allows you to choose

if it wasn't cycled, you'd be having to change the water, or dose Prime, to keep it alive.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

but at that point we diverge from the LFS...this is a no test kit alters our path thread.

we make calls solely off the time the substrates have been underwater, and only ammonia is factored for reasons listed on post #1, many links worth of nitrite misreads




we would ask them how they've verified your nitrite tests before making a recommending action...did they run a red sea, or salifert compare?

we don't factor any behavior other than what ammonia has been doing predictably. Any source recommending otherwise thinks that cycles vary in timeframe establishment beyond 30 days after using boosters; they don't, we are here to show that cycles don't vary when the right tests are administered




Anyone can report any test reports they like, however, we have nitrite noncompliance logged out to seven months in one particular tank he quit updating eventually (it never was elevated, he used prime water conditioner false point of sale) that's why we don't use anything beyond ammonia, and the test isn't expected to read zero for everyone its just predicted/expected not to make incremental daily up movements past a certain submersion date.

All good so far, your tank followed the path that testless cycling confers. We don't even need to know the rough estimates that titrations provide for ammonia...we can use known submersion times + a big water change at the end to cycle all tanks. the reason we've been accepting tests so far, for ammonia, is to show how the prediction panned out to the test movement not the zero point. zero points vary tester to tester, but all testers can indicate an ammonia movement up, so the way to use titration testing in reef assessment is to look for upward motion, we don't expect 2 or 3 different brand test kits to register an equal zero. some will show partial low level ammonia and some will show zero.
*wastewater is always expected to show skewed measurements vs the post water change measure, same bioload in the tank

that's why we have a water change before you assess practice here, these are means that make hobby test kits line up. We're informing your LFS on the updates lol, send em here.

your tank is cycled, ergo you can change the water 100% the next five days in a row if you like, and it can't uncycle

However its ok if you don't; store up any nitrate and feed the system early also not a prob. since the tank is cycled, it allows you to choose

if it wasn't cycled, you'd be having to change the water, or dose Prime, to keep it alive.

Yeah all I’ve done is thrown in some more bacteria, which isn’t doing anything as the tank already had some, furthermore my dry rock is starting to turn brown. Which is a good sign. Once my nitrites get too 0 I’ll be a happy man. And I’m also going to use some seaweed and maybe some coral in a bit too help with nitrate control. But one step at a time but the tank is doing what’s it needs too. I just got a nitrite spike which I’m trying too make sure my fish and shrimp is okay. As of right now everything is holding together. Ammonia at this point isn’t even in my radar lol yet it still shows some lol

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Update
My ammonia level is official 0 both the api and my ammonia alert are nill

The nitrites are still high but I’m going too continue onwards. The tank is on track I’ll give it another couple of days and see what’s what

 

[brandon429]

New case study

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2692584

That is probably the largest unneeded expenditure of cycling additives Ive ever seen.


Here is the complete biological breakdown of that aquarium system as its many tanks linked to the same source:

they added ocean water which is the best inoculant possible for cycling bacteria. all ocean water. they didnt sterilize it, the bleach isn't thorough.

we have full running reef tanks who dose bleach to kill dinos with sps in the system, search. sterilizing water with bleach to the point there are no colonies in suspension is very hard to do



they still had oceanic microbes and bacteria in there, plus they added bottle bac afterwards.


they added precise .5 ppm ammonia

all they had to do was wait 30 days, and not test the wastewater interim leading to all sorts of misreads from the adulterants and other items listed on page one...

at the end of thirty days in a system that big they can't just change water.

they don't have to, .5 is such a low amnt it cant produce any lethal amnts of sustained ammonia over 30 days, because by rule so far here / documented/ ammonia always complies by day 30 when the test is framed accurately. they would simply begin using the aquarium at day 30 with whatever the planned initial bioloading will be.

Trust cycling would've saved her three hundred dollars, and we'd have a new giant cyled tank by day 30, ammonia only, as more proof.



that cycle NEVER stalled

she didn't have to use the bleach, but she didn't use levels that are total sterility either.


She spent 300$ unneeded

the addition of seawater was enough inoculant from the start plus the cheap bottle bac. Fritz is luxury need only, for speed cycling.

when you have a month to wait, any bottle bac is fine.
she added ammonia, she needed only to wait out the 30 days knowing the tank will cycle by then and then begin.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Update my ammonia is still low. I did a 35 percent water change with R/O water. Nitrites are still high. I’m using prime to keep the fishes happy. I did add some extra nullifying bacteria. God i hope the tank get it’s **** together within the next week or so but the good news is added live plants and they’ll help with the nitrates

 

[brandon429]

Your fish never started showing the stress causing you to need the prime you added the prime due to a test kit reading

The plants will do nothing for nitrates


That lysmata shrimp you have is one of the most delicate sensitive creatures in reefing there's no way it would survive with low-level ammonia. Have you read the portions of our thread where we talked about animals that indicate ammonia stress




You would have mentioned right off the bat if your fish were about to die or were acting different or if the water was smelly or cloudy




Constant reminders: no biology backs up that you have free ammonia and we've spent 16 Pages talking about how a biological event always happens where you can see stress and clouding and smell the tank when there's free ammonia

But you post a perfectly clean tank with happy fish. Low-level test readings has been your sole concern the whole time while your tank looks great, it's hard to mis trust the test kits I understand. We provide myriad examples to help you see how common it is though.

Also when we do accept testing here it's done after a *full water change* using ammonia only as the measure, increasing daily not just holding as yours does, for the marker of an unfinished cycle or not

we don't accept low-level api that stays the same as a valid reading, yet you report it as matter-of-fact...any reading the test kit gives regardless of discussed adulterants for the test.

see this thread more work examples learning about cycles and APi misreads

We don't want nitrite testing here, again, mentioned on page one.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cycling-not-progressing.588336/page-3#post-5979891

I just want to keep that consistent here cuz you're posting mis readings, at no time should any reader think your tank is not cycled you are not getting the daily increases we've been talking about. You are simply getting APi misreads think we have 20 examples linked in this thread


If you had said my constantly low-level ammonia finally moved to high-level that would be different. I'm asking for consistent types of testing here, not the usual

We are specifically an ammonia only thread. I don't mind if you want to post more ammonia readings but what we look at is to see if they're rising above .25 or .5

Nitrite not accepted further, it's prime contaminated readings from here on out

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-test-kit-question-new-tank.589278/

Another mis read look how far API reads apart differently from the other one

We would accept other test kits regarding your ammonia levels only if you wanted to provide them, something other than api

 

[Gogoggansgo]

The ammonia doesn’t worry me it’s the nitrites and yeah i noticed them one morning breathing rather heavy after feeding. Don’t know if it’s related too the nitrites but I’m throwing in prime every 48 hours and to be blunt they’ve all doing just fine. And my shrimp and crabs are very active. Once the nitrites go down I’ll be a very very happy man.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

And i think adding prime did affect my testing lol. Remember i wasn’t adding anything at all and the second i started adding prime poof it went up the next day lol

I’m just waiting on the nitrites to drop they have gone down but rather slowly. It not a dark dark dark purple

 

[brandon429]

We have special communication, me and you. What you just typed is so friendly and funny I must heartily accept it with a handshake lol if we were neighbors we'd get along fine.

You could come hang grill with me and the fam and we'd discuss nitrite reading relevance over porterhouses. Though you responded with the polar opposite intended takeaway, its so sincere I honestly like your way better.

Why can't all exchanges go as easily


B

 

[Gogoggansgo]

We have special communication, me and you. What you just typed is so friendly and funny I must heartily accept it with a handshake lol if we were neighbors we'd get along fine.

You could come hang grill with me and the fam and we'd discuss nitrite reading relevance over porterhouses. Though you responded with the polar opposite intended takeaway, its so sincere I honestly like your way better.

Why can't all exchanges go as easily


B

Because I’m only an ******* too people that deserve it. There is some real dipshits out there


Furthermore my dry rock is starting too turn brown. Lol that’s good news

 

[BeejReef]

Update my ammonia is still low. I did a 35 percent water change with R/O water. Nitrites are still high. I’m using prime to keep the fishes happy. I did add some extra nullifying bacteria. God i hope the tank get it’s **** together within the next week or so but the good news is added live plants and they’ll help with the nitrates

Hope the tank's cycle wraps up soon for you. More importantly, how long until you can repair the power couplings to the port nacelle's auxiliary antimatter injector?

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Hope the tank's cycle wraps up soon for you. More importantly, how long until you can repair the power couplings to the port nacelle's auxiliary antimatter injector?

It’ll be okay but next time I’m doing fishless. I can only do so much with them in the tank
And that’s Scotty’s job

 

[Gogoggansgo]

At least i know the bacteria is happy the rock is starting too turn brown just like the bio i added too the tank

 

[Gogoggansgo]

Update on the tank well the red micro algae didn’t like all my flow and didn’t to take a vacation lol. I will redo the micro algae at a later date

Ammonia is still at 0 on the ammonia alert but comes up green ish thanks too prime with the api kit. Nitrites have been going down and are now under 1PPM. Thank god it’s slow but the tank is getting close to getting the cycle done. Definitely a good learning experience, i also bought a 10 gallon QT tank for emergency’s. 50 bucks for the whole kit .