triton test results advice

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bobstir

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greetings, please see my test results here:

Screen Shot 2014-12-05 at 3.07.42 PM.jpg

Screen Shot 2014-12-05 at 3.07.52 PM.jpg


As you can see, my lithium is high, which I know is normal from reading the other posts, but mine appears to be exceedingly high. I use a 50/50 mix of Instant Ocean and Tropic Marin Pro Reef w/ weekly water changes (~10% on 125g total system volume tank)

Further, my Boron is high as well.

Other than the salt mix, the only other thing I add to the tank that I think could be a cause for the above numbers is what I use for my 2-part dosing: Seachem Laboratories Marine Buffer and Seachem Laboratories Reef Advantage Calcium for alk and calcium respectively.

Could this be the problem? I've been using both of the above for a couple years now and haven't had any issues -- particularly with respect to fish and coral loss. My display is an SPS-dominant mixed-reef. Possible that these levels -- if left unchecked and continue to increase -- could poison / wipe the tank? Detrimental to corals, fish, both?

The other thing I'm curious about is my low phosphate reading. I do not run GFO or any other phosphate remover and I do not run a refugium -- I only have a bunch of live rock in the sump.

Over the past several months, i've been trying to increase my phosphate levels as some of my corals have started to lose their vibrancy. I feed what I think is a lot -- both to the fish and corals. The problem is if I feed too much, the algae starts taking off in my frag tank. It's generally not a problem in the display tank (perhaps because of lawnmower blenny) other than the film on the glass which I have to clean once or twice a week depending on how much I feed.

So now my question is where is the phosphate going? I'm quite certain I'm feeding enough to warrant a higher result: couple cubes of mysis AND pellets daily (5 small fish, 2 medium, 1 large (~7-8")), coral frenzy mixed w/ some frozen mixture like rod's reef or whatever is at the LFS every other day or so (in addition to the daily), oyster feast once a week, dried seaweed strip once a week.

My hanna meter always reads 0 and this was partly why I wanted to send it in to get tested by Triton so they could corroborate my readings. I do have a lot of sponges -- both in the display and in the sump. Could this be a factor? Any suggestions? I have a ton of hermit crabs in the frag tank to eat at the algae when it grows, but they can't get -- or don't feel the need to go -- to the higher racks so I start getting growth on both the egg crate and plugs. This is terribly annoying.

And finally, how do I determine my salinity and alkalinity from the above? I calibrated my refractometer w/ Pinpoint solution, but if i base it off of the sodium content above, it would appear I'm a touch low -- my refractometer read 1.026 when I sent in the sample. Similarly, my hanna meter read a little lower on alkalinity than I normally run (it was 7 and I normally run it around 9), but I have no idea where to look in the triton results to corroborate this. For me, the main purpose to have the triton test done was to be able to establish a base-line for my home test kits. Problem is i'm not sure how to map one reading to another in some cases. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Bob
 
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bobstir

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Trying better images:
view


view
 

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TheClark

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Hey bud, the results are kind of hard to read, very tiny pics. Can you re-post?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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The Seachem Marine Buffer is the likely cause of the elevated boron. I do not recommend it for a reef for that reason.

You cannot get alkalinity from the Triton test. (edited to clarify)

Salinity looks close to 35 ppt, maybe a tad higher.

Have you dosed potassium?
 
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bobstir

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No, I have not dosed potassium. Why do you ask?

And can you please clarify the statement about not being able to get alkalinity from the marine buffer? Does it not contain sodium carbonate / sodium bicarbonate?

Thanks!
 

swk

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No, I have not dosed potassium. Why do you ask?

And can you please clarify the statement about not being able to get alkalinity from the marine buffer? Does it not contain sodium carbonate / sodium bicarbonate?

Thanks!

The triton test does not test alkalinity
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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No, I have not dosed potassium. Why do you ask?

And can you please clarify the statement about not being able to get alkalinity from the marine buffer? Does it not contain sodium carbonate / sodium bicarbonate?

Thanks!

I ask because potassium is somewhat higher than normal. :)

You cannot determine alkalinity in any way from the Triton test.

The Seachem Marine Buffer adds alkalinity, but it also adds borate, which is not appropriate in a reef aquarium where you are replacing carbonate that is used in calcification.

If carbonate is consumed, and you add back borate and carbonate, eventually the borate rises.

That's not a concern in a fish only tank where the additions are low and pH control is the goal, but it is not appropriate in a reef tank where alkalinity maintenance is the goal. :)
 

Diesel

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Try to just dose two part manual, I know some SPS coral vendors on here that don't use a auto doser and SPS growing like crazy but also the water is as close to NSW.
Test for ALK your self, testing it often and in many cases every day as it will tell you a lot, ALK is one important factor to our reefs as Randy already mentioned.
In most cases what we find in the test results is something we put in our self, and we don't even know it.
 

swk

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Something is wrong with me lol! I test alk every day and it has saved my butt on a few occasions. The kits are very cheap and it takes under 5 min to perform.
 
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bobstir

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I ask because potassium is somewhat higher than normal. :)

You cannot determine alkalinity in any way from the Triton test.

The Seachem Marine Buffer adds alkalinity, but it also adds borate, which is not appropriate in a reef aquarium where you are replacing carbonate that is used in calcification.

If carbonate is consumed, and you add back borate and carbonate, eventually the borate rises.

That's not a concern in a fish only tank where the additions are low and pH control is the goal, but it is not appropriate in a reef tank where alkalinity maintenance is the goal. :)

Thanks for the clarification Randy. I plan to get off the seachem. Also thanks for the salinity calculation... looks like my refractometer is correctly calibrated.
 
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bobstir

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Try to just dose two part manual, I know some SPS coral vendors on here that don't use a auto doser and SPS growing like crazy but also the water is as close to NSW.
Test for ALK your self, testing it often and in many cases every day as it will tell you a lot, ALK is one important factor to our reefs as Randy already mentioned.
In most cases what we find in the test results is something we put in our self, and we don't even know it.

Thanks for the reply, but maintaining alk levels isn't really a problem for me, nor is testing myself -- which I've been doing quite often as of late since my SPS is growing like crazy and is consuming more than ever. What I wanted to get out of the triton test was just to get corroboration and/or establish a baseline for my home tests -- to be able to determine if they are correct and if not, figure out what the variance is.
 
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bobstir

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Randy, I forgot to mention, I also dose acropower and pohl's extra via doser and kent tech m (mag) in my change water. Do you think any of these might contribute to the high lithium? I think you are spot on about the borate, so the only major thing left to track down is the lithium (unless you think otherwise?).
 
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bobstir

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also note, regarding the kent tech m, apparently "The reason for the label change is that the ingredients they used are Mag chloride and mag sulfate--- and that the other items in the previous "ingredient list" on the label were basically by-products or impurities. By law they don't need to record them as "ingredients" since they are of such a low concentration."

The Tech M label current states the following as ingredients: Deionized Water, Magnesium Chloride and Magnesium Sulfate.

It USED to state:
deionized water containing the following elements (as ions): magnesium, chlorine, sulfur, calcium, potassium, bromine, strontium, boron, fluorine, lithium, rubidium, iodine, iron, molybdenum, zinc, nickel, copper, manganese, vanadium, cesium, cobalt, tungsten, selenium, and chromium.


 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Yes, that is a common confusion: actual ingredients vs what chemicals are present. :)

I do not know what the source of the lithium is, but I doubt it is the Acropower.

I have no idea what is in pohl's extra.

Lithium may be in the Tropic Marin salt, but it isn't from the IO.

FWIW, lithium is usually present at quite low levels and may not be a problem if elevated, even significantly, but you might watch for other folks suing that salt and see if it looks elevated in their tanks.

How are you supplementing calcium and alkalinity? They can boost lithium.


 
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bobstir

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Randy Holmes-Farley

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Triton US

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Some brands of calcium chloride have enough lithium to add more than 2,000 ug/L in a year. I don't know about Seachem.

I showed that here:

Aquarium Chemistry: Purity Of Calcium Chloride ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

Great article, Randy...Perhaps it points us in the right direction for getting to the bottom of this. In conversation with many customers who have received their tests, and with Ehsan in Germany, a surprisingly high number of U.S. aquarists are reporting elevated lithium levels from their tests...

-Scott
 

TheClark

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Yes, that is a common confusion: actual ingredients vs what chemicals are present. :)

I do not know what the source of the lithium is, but I doubt it is the Acropower.

I have no idea what is in pohl's extra.

Lithium may be in the Tropic Marin salt, but it isn't from the IO.

FWIW, lithium is usually present at quite low levels and may not be a problem if elevated, even significantly, but you might watch for other folks suing that salt and see if it looks elevated in their tanks.

How are you supplementing calcium and alkalinity? They can boost lithium.



Wow, that article spells it out pretty clearly. Either my salt mix, or 2 part is the cause in my own personal Triton Lithiumresults.

This stuff is just over the top good Randy, cannot thank you enough.

I would love to see Triton sponsor someone to do more testing of common salts / supplements, someone with an analytical mind and scientific background that also happens to be a reefer. The more of this information, the better for our hobby.
 

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