Very very high nitrates no phosphates

[drunkenclown]

Hey everyone

Think I need some help. So I was pretty sure I had a nutrient issue because I was getting some algae I couldn't get rid of and some corals weren't doing too good. I upgraded my ro system, changed all the filters and membranes, hooked up a biopellet reactor took my phosban reactor offline and started dosing prodibio bioptum and bio digest on the 5th and 20th of every month. Hopefully by now u can tell where this is going ....did tons of research watched tons of videos before embarking on this journey and one thing everyone stressed was testing is key as you guessed it I didn't test my water till yesterday thinking I'd set it and forget it for 8 weeks cause everything said they need time to start working and don't mess with anything.

So I started with 2 cups of bio pellets 8 weeks ago and have dosed prodibio 4x.

Tested last night and today with ati test kits: nitrate 160+ Phosphate 0 I think no noticeable color change.

Performed a 25gallon water change last night before bed another one this morning and about to do another one now and plan on doing one more tomorrow night.

Tank is 125 gallon with 30gal sump. Almost 8yrs old

Some questions and things I need help with:

Some suggest seeding bio pellets with microbacter7 or something similar anyone else do this?is it good or bad?

I started off with about 2 cups which I believe is about 400ml of bio pellets should I add the other cup to bring it up to 600ml now that it's been 8 weeks?

If my nitrate really is through the roof and my phosphate is really is zero that means my redfield ratio is all sorts out of whack . Would I need to dose something like neophos or seachem flourish phosphorus to raise my phosphate level to help my nitrates come down?
Do I need to use some type of carbon source like microbacter7 or something in conjunction with the flourish? Should I continue using the prodibio products twice monthly if I need to dose the flourish and Microbacter7?

Tank Params:
Temp 78
Salt 1.025
Ph 8.0
Alk 9
Cal 320
Mag 1300
Nitrate 160+
Phos 0 ?

Can my tank be saved or is it time for a thorough tear down cleaning and re-start ?

Thanks

 

[Wolf89]

Do you have a deepsand bed by chance?

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

First off you are correct you need some po4 to process no3. What is your filtration like? Bio balls and old filter floss are nitrate producers. How about a good cleaning of the sand? Take some rocks out and vac the sand underneath them.

 

[drunkenclown]

IMO it’s deep I’d say about 2-3” in most spots if I remember correctly it’s about 125-150 pounds in a 6ft 125. Should I get one of those vac things like freshwater tanks use for gravel? I’ve never done that always relied on nassirus snails and sand starfish.

Also have something in my sump think it was called “refugite” or something like that think it was basically two little fishes version of “sump mud” that’s never really been messed with. Not even sure how I would clean or remove it cause it’s in the bottom of my sump. Should I get or have some snails or emerald crabs in my sump to help keep it clean?

Thanks for all the help. I’ll try and answer as thoroughly as I can I know the more tell you the better everyone can help

 

[Wolf89]

I think your problem is your sand bed is leeching after years of absorbing nitrates. Not really sure what to do next though, maybe @brandon429 can help

 

[drunkenclown]

First off you are correct you need some po4 to process no3. What is your filtration like? Bio balls and old filter floss are nitrate producers. How about a good cleaning of the sand? Take some rocks out and vac the sand underneath them.

Aqueon pro flex sump (I hate it but it’s stuck under my stand but that another story which is also why I’m considering a tear down and reset). No filter socks reef octo skimmer and Biopellets reactor no gfo right now

 

[Wolf89]

Do not clean a bunch of sand at once! Very bad idea. Maybe a little per day or week could work, but large amounts will hurt your tank.

 

[brandon429]

If you could post a full tank shot picture that would help the most to get a plan considered based on details

 

[SeaDweller]

you think that’s bad? about 1 year ago i had 300+ ppm NO3 and 3.0+ po4 all tested on salifert. it took me 4-5 120 gallon water changes in about 2-3 weeks time to get it down to under 25 ppm NO3 and had to manage po4 with LaCl. I run chaeto, skim, and use a sulfur reactor to keep my levels in check, but honestly if you want to get your levels down within a reasonable time, just do large water changes, and maybe look into a sulfur denitrator that many people are opening up their eyes to again.

 

[drunkenclown]

thanks for all the help everyone. so i did that 25 gallon water change last night and plan on doing another one tonight when i get home from work. i tried taking pictures just after 9 this morning before i left but the pictures just came out like blue blobs so it'll have to wait im gonna try and find some pics from a month or two ago and post those for now.

 

[drunkenclown]

This was my tank oct 20th

 

[brandon429]

Source of nitrates:
-The fish and animal bioloading
-Feed added
-the storage zones- for detritus = Sand, and rock. Anything you dose to water or do to water (change it) doesn't remove this pump source, only cleaning can.

The reason people are going bare bottom in large tanks is so they don't have a sandbed that perpetually stores waste in it and tucks waste into rocks as storage. Cleaning out a system all at once to make it detritus free isn't hard, even with the big toadstool. It's just work using a certain order of ops.

98% of reefing will ignore it and do water actions, but storage is finite and one day cleaning will be required but perhaps not immediately, the tank is looking great and could run years before issues. If you ever want to surgically disassemble the tank and remove/ clean the sandbed all at once, we want your work for the sand rinse thread/ a thread of mass tank cleanings.

 

[drunkenclown]

Thanks for all your help @brandon429.

So I've been trying to read through the sand rinse thread. It's a lot to take in but I think I understand. I'm definitely on board. I'm trying to get in touch with the guy that helps my brother in law with his tank(I was always afraid to call this guy because he's a "sand cleaner" lol) so he can come help me.

Could you please help me come up with some type of gameplan or oder of operation please.

So I guess my first decision I need to make is whether or not to go bare bottom? If I do this I think I get it just...take rocks out take fish out keep them in separate tanks get rid of sand and clean tank have plenty of fresh saltwater put fish and rock back with new saltwater?

If I want to keep a sand bed would I pretty much do the same with the exception of cleaning or replacing the sand? I'm a little confused when it comes to this. Would I take the sand out of my tank and clean it with tap water and then saltwater and put it back in or would I be better of buying new dry sand or live sand and doing the rinse before re filling the tank?

The other decision I need to make is whether or not to replace my sump with a trigger34 while I'm doing all this if I'm gonna have the tank empty this would probably be the best time to do it. I'm assuming replacing the sump wouldn't be a problem because if we're relying on the Rock and starting off clean it shouldn't have any adverse affects?

Please feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong .

 

[brandon429]

That is really good plan for sure. I believe rinsing the sand out to be ok mine has been rinsed and resused for a good five years now and it’s staying clean with only occasional touch ups. Regarding the ongoing use of sand, that thread called my white sand method/ from Blusop shows lots of large tanks with white sand and no future takedown cleanings because they stick-stir the sand after intial setup / cleaning

They routinely stir it deep to kick up small bits of waste which isn’t harmful and prevents compaction. I sure like sand so for me I’ll keep it, I just prefer to catch up clean it every so often based on how I’ve fed and changed water it changes work needs as time goes by

We think the reliable mechanism is to separate sensitives from sand somehow, before extraction and cleaning, so that cloudy portions never mix with sensitive nontargets

That will be by far and away the greatest centerpiece coral we’ve ever seen in a work thread, dang man I almost hate to see this taken apart — not for cycle risk, that live rock # will run the bioload most certainly, but because that big cozy toadstool might be mad for six weeks and go into a tunic shedding event and look all mad simply for the stasis change. I could envision the whole tank looking great and then him mad for a bit, but cleaning and moving large soft corals isn’t lethal they’re darn tough given good setup procedure and no immediate strong light. After cleaning the new tank gets new led ramp up vs the old intensity. That has protected us from bleaching via some mechanism not sure. No reefs are harmed by a simple re ramp up /cloudy weeks and it’s a very reliable insurance protector move for rip cleans