Watanabei Angelfish QT Treatment

[sc50964]

Here's a pic of the lesion on the female from this morning. Seems to look a little more red now.

Doesn’t this look like septicemia?

 

[sc50964]

Ugh. Things have taken a bit of a negative turn. I’m having trouble now since last night getting the pair to eat and the male has become somewhat lethargic. Ammonia is at 0 and Cupramine at .46 per Hannah. SG is .023. Im going to check nitrite and some other parameters but any advice welcome.

Pls show a video of both fish

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How about using hydrogen peroxide 3%?

As a bath, it only will have action against external organisms, and if this is Uronema, it is inter cellular, so would not be exposed to the peroxide. As a disinfectant, true antibiotics would be better if this were a bacterial infection.

Jay

 

[sc50964]

As a bath, it only will have action against external organisms, and if this is Uronema, it is inter cellular, so would not be exposed to the peroxide. As a disinfectant, true antibiotics would be better if this were a bacterial infection.

Jay

With the wound/ciliate surfacing, wouldn’t hydrogen peroxide take care of those?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

With the wound/ciliate surfacing, wouldn’t hydrogen peroxide take care of those?

But the tissue damage is down deep, the peroxide can’t reach that.
Chloroquine works in vitro to kill Uronema, but it also cannot get down into the tissues. Same issue with formalin. I tried using DMSO to carry the drugs down into the tissues, but the fish reacted poorly to that.
In theory, oral anti-protozoans might work, but you would need to dose them before the skin lesions show up, once you see those, the internal tissues are already toast.
Jay

 

[jacksoje00]

The growing lesion, regardless of its cause, is an issue. However, both fish were eating and now neither is?

How are you testing ammonia?
Nitrite is non-toxic to marine fish, so that won't be an issue.
Do you know the pH?

As I mentioned, Cupramine is harsher than chelated copper products on angels, but I'm still suprised if that is the cause of them not eating.

Jay

Hi Jay. As of yesterday afternoon, neither the male or female are eating. I did not mention before, but there is also a small leopard wrasse in QT and this fish is eating well. I did see the wrasse "flash" twice yesterday so maybe trying to get rid of a parasite?

I just tested pH and shows to be ~8.0. I tested both ammonia and nitrite via API kits. I know these are cheap and not 100% accurate, but I used these same kits for cycling the QT and DTs. I test Cu via Hannah.

I'm at a bit of a loss here. I have some water mixed for a water change but don't know if that'd be of any value.

 

[jacksoje00]

Pls show a video of both fish

 

[jacksoje00]

Here's a theory and feel free to disagree. Is my QT too small for the pair? I order the pair and was informed they were3-4" but they're obviously larger - more like 6". They are getting along just fine, but is the QT size possibly stressing them?

 

[sc50964]

Here's a theory and feel free to disagree. Is my QT too small for the pair? I order the pair and was informed they were3-4" but they're obviously larger - more like 6". They are getting along just fine, but is the QT size possibly stressing them?

IMO, you now need to get the male into a different QT & hope that he isn't already infected by Uronema & verify if the harsh Cupramine or stress by pairing with a female are the reasons that he isn't eating. Really suggesting you to look into switching to either Coppersafe or power, which I'm not sure if you can get. The male does still seem to be alert and swims just fine. I have recently also just lost my pair (male = 6", female = 3") after nearly two weeks of QT'ing them in a 40G. They didn't come as a pair & both were with the LFS for more than 2 weeks. Anyway, I will be looking for another chance in the near future but won't be QTing them in the same tank. My success in pairing and QTing the Japanese Masked was done in a 125G, after getting them & the male had a terrible time in a smaller QT.

 

[jacksoje00]

IMO, you now need to get the male into a different QT & hope that he isn't already infected by Uronema & verify if the harsh Cupramine or stress by pairing with a female are the reasons that he isn't eating. Really suggesting you to look into switching to either Coppersafe or power, which I'm not sure if you can get. The male does still seem to be alert and swims just fine. I have recently also just lost my pair (male = 6", female = 3") after nearly two weeks of QT'ing them in a 40G. They didn't come as a pair & both were with the LFS for more than 2 weeks. Anyway, I will be looking for another chance in the near future but won't be QTing them in the same tank. My success in pairing and QTing the Japanese Masked was done in a 125G, after getting them & the male had a terrible time in a smaller QT.

Unfortunately, that's not an option as I only have 1 QT. The male was originally eating great. I just keep thinking the Cupramine is having a bad effect, but I'll continue to stand corrected.

 

[sc50964]

Unfortunately, that's not an option as I only have 1 QT. The male was originally eating great. I just keep thinking the Cupramine is having a bad effect, but I'll continue to stand corrected.

A 20G at Petco will cost you $50. Not sure if you are in the US or not.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Here's a theory and feel free to disagree. Is my QT too small for the pair? I order the pair and was informed they were3-4" but they're obviously larger - more like 6". They are getting along just fine, but is the QT size possibly stressing them?

The argument can easily be made that they need a larger QT. I generally quarantine this species in a minimum 100 gallon tank. However, many wholesalers hold these short term in cubicles, 12"x12" and they are o.k. in those.

I see the male is holding its fins clamped, not sure why. Both fish are breathing a bit heavy (but not too fast).
That lesion on the female looks worse.

Jay

 

[jacksoje00]

The argument can easily be made that they need a larger QT. I generally quarantine this species in a minimum 100 gallon tank. However, many wholesalers hold these short term in cubicles, 12"x12" and they are o.k. in those.

I see the male is holding its fins clamped, not sure why. Both fish are breathing a bit heavy (but not too fast).
That lesion on the female looks worse.

Jay

Update. The pair are both swimming about and the male's pectoral fins are moving normally. I agree the lesion on the female is looking worse as it's now pretty much extended vertically across her entire side. Neither fish are eating still. The Leopard Wrasee continues to eat well and have seen it flash couple times still.

 

[Weeb]

Hello All. My very first post on R2R so thanks for having me! I have a pair of Watanabei Angelfish on order and should arrive in the next 4 weeks.

My new fish QT method I have used with past success is first to temperature/tank acclimate, then a 5-minute freshwater dip with matching PH RODI water heated and aerated. I then transfer to a tank water bucket containing part A of Blue Life Aquatics Safety Stop which is Formalin for 40-45 mins. Then the fish are transferred to tank water bucket part B which is Methylene Blue for 40-45 mins. All (3) buckets of water are aerated and heated. Fish then go to QT tank for 6-week observation. I typically dose Cupramine to .5 mg/L and PraziPro per instructions. I also feed pellets with Metroplex, Focus, and Selcon.

My questions is: will the Watanabei Angelfish be tolerant of the above treatments, or should I revise them?

That is a lot for any fish to go through. Some suggestions:
Acclimate to QT, matching pH, salinity, and temperature.
Add some salt (a pinch or so) to the RODI to get a better pH measurement for the FW dip.
If these fish are being shipped to you directly, be careful about ammonia build up in the water bag. Hopefully the shipper will use the appropriate amount of water and the fish arrive quickly.
I would do no more than the FW dip in MB (5 ppm) water using an airstone. Transfer to QT, make sure they are eating good foods per the recommendations in the Fish Nutrition post.
After the above, treat with copper. Use the Hanna High Range Copper Colorimeter Checker.

After the copper treatment, I move the fish to a new aquarium and observe. Here I treat with Praziquantel if I see any signs of flukes in the FW dip water or I suspect flukes.

I've used the above procedure for decades. Just MHO. Good luck!

 

[jacksoje00]

Hi All. Update: I fed this morning and male picked up one piece of mysis off the bottom of the QT! BUT, I now noticed the male is only breathing from 1 gill and the opposite gill is working double time. Any feedback here?

The female will still not eat and the lesion hasn't gown any.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi All. Update: I fed this morning and male picked up one piece of mysis off the bottom of the QT! BUT, I now noticed the male is only breathing from 1 gill and the opposite gill is working double time. Any feedback here?

The female will still not eat and the lesion hasn't gown any.

I’ve seen that sort of skip breathing in pomacanthus angels, but I could never determine a reason for it - sometimes it just goes away on its own.
Jay

 

[sc50964]

How are the watanabei angels?

 

[jacksoje00]

Hi, thanks for asking. The male is breathing from both gills again and is not eating. He's not exactly eating like a pig, but he's at least eating some which is a good sign and his breathing has slowed to normal. I'm very happy about this. Although now, that he's feeling better, he's taken to chasing the female and she's stopped eating. The lesion on the side of the female seems to be getting smaller. I just recently placed a divider in the tank and hopefully her stress levels get better. Thanks again for all the advice as the situation looks to be improving. Not giving up on these two!

 

[Reef_Ninjas]

Use of poly filter with carbon or cuprasorb will remove copper from the system.
Once you stop registering copper on poly filter, take the filter socks out and wash them in bleach in washing machine, let them air dry for a day or 2.
For powerhead, simply place it in a bucket of bleach or vinegar solution and run it for a few hours then air dry as well for couple of days.
Then they should be safe to use in main tank.

Hi, thanks for asking. The male is breathing from both gills again and is not eating. He's not exactly eating like a pig, but he's at least eating some which is a good sign and his breathing has slowed to normal. I'm very happy about this. Although now, that he's feeling better, he's taken to chasing the female and she's stopped eating. The lesion on the side of the female seems to be getting smaller. I just recently placed a divider in the tank and hopefully her stress levels get better. Thanks again for all the advice as the situation looks to be improving. Not giving up on these two!

Glad they are doing better. Where did you buy them from? I’m looking to purchase a pair myself.

 

[jacksoje00]

I purchased the pair from Dr. Reef. My first order with them and very happy with their service level.