What do you look for in a LFS? Good, bad, and ugly...

[amygetsalife]

New to the hobby and checking out my local or local-ish fish shops/pet stores/etc. I have not been impressed. Maybe I'm being too critical? Looking at beautiful pictures online, which are carefully chosen and the shots framed just so, maybe has set up unrealistic expectations?

I understand that algae can happen to anyone and it can take a while to get it under control, and for herbivore fish, they need some to be happy, but shouldn't it look like someone is trying to control it? Especially around frags?

Aptasia... Yeah...it's there because they sell Aptasia eating file fish.......OK. How many tanks should be prepped and "ready for file fish"? All of them? Only about half of them? None of them? Maybe 2 of them?

Maintenance of tanks and shop? I thought they'd be kept clean and presentable. Silly me. I am pretty sure that a discussion before one of the shops I visited was opened was, "get all your nasty fish tanks out of the basement or I'm leaving!" It had an amazing amount of diversity and big specimens, but there were more 'mature' display tanks than your typical sale tanks and the display tanks seems to be a frag on demand kind of thing. Is that good? Normal? Like picking produce straight from the farm? I read somewhere that you wanted to see some growth on the frag plugs before buying? The newest display tank was gorgeous, but the rest?! Skimmer cups overflowing, was trying to figure out what I was looking at in one tank to realize that the 3 inch oval shape was one of the return pump outlets coated in....well...some of it was coraline algae. Not sure what was growing out of it above the waterline....

I have yet to buy livestock online, but may I'll need to. I definitely feel good about the extra spending on quarantine tanks now, but I don't want to buy knowing that they need quarantined. I was less horrified by the tanks at Petco which were obviously in the midst of the ugly stage with dinos, slimes, etc. Though I saw less algae and aptasia there than in some of the shops. But I didn't expect much out of them and won't buy livestock there. I want to support local.

What do you look for in a good shop? What makes you walk out and say, NOPE? What do you overlook as a trade off for local and nearby? Maybe I'm just in a bad area for this.

Pictures would be awesome. Who has a small local shop (in the US) that does a great job AND they sell online with good outcomes?

 

[muzikalmatt]

Depending on where you are located your LFS options may be fairly limited. I have two or three within 15 minutes driving distance from me and another maybe an hour away. They all have their pros and cons depending on what you are looking for. One of them has many tanks infested with aiptasia and bubble algae, the second has a ton of GHA, and the third one I wouldn't buy anything there with my worst enemy's money (obvious signs of disease in most of the fish, predatory business tactics and in general just a shady place).

I think it's rare to find a LFS that does everything right and has nothing but pristine tanks, especially if they've been around a while. With that said, there should at least be some effort to keep things relatively clean otherwise you have to question purchasing anything from that store.

For example, I still buy corals from the store that has visible aiptasia and bubble algae in the tanks because I've already had both in my tank and can manage them fairly easily. However, I am still very proactive about dipping and inspecting the corals before adding them to my tank.

On the flip side, as I said earlier I would never purchase a fish from the third store as it's pretty much guaranteed to carry some sort of fish disease or parasite that will infect my tank or other fish. I feel that is a much bigger risk than maybe getting some aiptasia or bubble algae in my tank.

People's priorities in this hobby are very different though. Many people on these forums would say if they saw even one piece of aiptasia or bubble algae in a store's tanks they would not buy from them, and that's totally fine and understandable. You just have the weigh the risks and your own priorities.

As far as purchasing online due to concerns about your LFS, there's risk involved in that was well. Coral mortality is obviously much more likely due to shipping and despite what people will tell you, there is still a high chance of getting pests from even the most reputable online vendors. Ideally, we should all be quarantining our corals before putting them in our displays, but that's just not something most people are likely to do.

I try to support my LFS as much as possible (despite some of the aforementioned issues) because I feel they are an integral and important part of the hobby and I want them to continue to be around. I especially prefer purchasing corals from my LFS as I've had much more success long-term with those corals as opposed to those I've purchased online.

Anyways, this response was much more long-winded than I intended but there's a lot that goes into this sort of question and again it's really going to depend on your own goals for your tank, your willingness to take risks (or not) and where/who you want to support with your money.

 

[Gtinnel]

For me to buy local I look for clean tanks without any pests in the tank. Around me there are no reef shops so to go to any brick and mortar store I have to travel. There is one in Charlotte, NC which is about a 10 hour round trip for me that I have absolutely fell in love with. Their tanks are always clean and I have never seen a pest in any of their tanks. Their corals and fish always look healthy and their prices are good. I've been to many lfs in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and the Carolinas and it is by far my favorite. I've never been to any in Virginia but from reading online none sounded all that impressive.

Here is a link to the shop I prefer, they do ship corals but Ive never ordered online from them. Although the corals listed on their website only make up about 1/3 of their coral tanks.

Premier Aquarium Store in Charlotte, North Carolina Premier Aquarium Store in Charlotte, North Carolina Premier Aquarium Store in Charlotte, North Carolina

Top aquarium store in Charlotte, NC. Aquarium Maintenance, Aquarium Service, Aquarium Installations in Charlotte, NC. Live Coral for sale. Aquacultured SPS, LPS, Soft Coral.

nemosreef.us

Here is a picture I found on their Facebook page of one of their growout tanks. I can't say enough positive things about them. No other lfs I've been to compares. I'm willing to make the 10 hour trip to go to this store if that says anything about how well I like them.

 

[muzikalmatt]

For me to buy local I look for clean tanks without any pests in the tank. Around me there are no reef shops so to go to any brick and mortar store I have to travel. There is one in Charlotte, NC which is about a 10 hour round trip for me that I have absolutely fell in love with. Their tanks are always clean and I have never seen a pest in any of their tanks. Their corals and fish always look healthy and their prices are good. I've been to many lfs in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and the Carolinas and it is by far my favorite. I've never been to any in Virginia but from reading online none sounded all that impressive.

Here is a link to the shop I prefer, they do ship corals but Ive never ordered online from them. Although the corals listed on their website only make up about 1/3 of their coral tanks.

Premier Aquarium Store in Charlotte, North Carolina Premier Aquarium Store in Charlotte, North Carolina Premier Aquarium Store in Charlotte, North Carolina

Top aquarium store in Charlotte, NC. Aquarium Maintenance, Aquarium Service, Aquarium Installations in Charlotte, NC. Live Coral for sale. Aquacultured SPS, LPS, Soft Coral.

nemosreef.us

Here is a picture I found on their Facebook page of one of their growout tanks. I can't say enough positive things about them. No other lfs I've been to compares. I'm willing to make the 10 hour trip to go to this store if that says anything about how well I like them.

Beautiful! I may have to make a road trip to this place sometime as Charlotte is only about 3.5 hours from me!

 

[Gtinnel]

Beautiful! I may have to make a road trip to this place sometime as Charlotte is only about 3.5 hours from me!

I love the place. The only negative I will say is that on the weekends it's sometimes hard to get someone to help you. They have a fairly large staff but everytime I've been there they've been busy. Once someone does start helping you they will stay with you for as long as you need. I literally had one of their workers stay with me talking about corals for over an hour one trip. If you go, ask to see the room in the back, it is where they keep the corals that are listed on the website.
Their fish prices are cheaper than everywhere else also, plus they keep a current stock list online so if looking for fish you can see what they have and their prices.

 

[Lyss]

My options are pretty limited unless I want to travel farther than I'd like. There are two in Manhattan --- one I go to for freshwater stuff, the other for saltwater, and it's kinda clear what each specializes in though they both carry both. Both have never tried to sell me stuff I don't need and have been very honest with me. The fish I see in the tanks always look healthy, and I haven't had trouble with fish from either but have read reviews for both online complaining about troubles with fish. It is what it is. I don't get a very friendly vibe from the SW place, and that frustrates me, but they are honest and I have so far found what I wanted in the way of fish there. CUC and corals I do tend to order online, but would 100% not think twice about getting corals from the local SW shop -- their tanks are beautiful.

If not for covid I probably would've visited each a bit more for dry goods and other things like frozen foods, and even purchased my tanks through them. For now I have just gone in for fish b/c I don't like the idea of having fish shipped. Planning to visit more in the coming year and see how I feel after that.

All of my fish have come from one or the other -- my pea puffer trio came from the FW place and are going strong, and all three of the fish in my reef came from the SW place, doing great.

 

[Paul B]

My favorite LFS is a filthy, dis questing shop but I go there for fish. I don't have to live there. I am not looking for advice but if I was, the place with the same owner has been there for 50 years.

There are much cleaner places where I may want to live but the place I go to I can get a copperband butterfly for $30.00 and I have to pay close to $90.00 in the clean place. I get small gobies for like 6 bucks and firefish for five.

The fish come from the same ocean as the expensive, clean place but then you have to pay the guy to clean the place.
The dirty place is very natural because the tanks have been set up for so long each tank is an eco system.

The coral tanks look like the sea with all the natural creatures naturally growing like they are supposed to and just like in my own tank.

To me, a very clean tank is not normal and not healthy as well as being very stressful to the fish. The fish don't have to walk around or go into the bathroom so it doesn't matter what the outside of the tanks look like.

I still have some fish from there for decades.

6 bucks. I can't beat it with a stick. I have 5 of these, some from a couple of years ago.



This guy was probably $30.00

 

[amygetsalife]

Lol.. @Paul B

My favorite LFS is a filthy, dis questing shop but I go there for fish. I don't have to live there. I am not looking for advice but if I was, the place with the same owner has been there for 50 years.

Just finished reading your book yesterday and makes perfect sense coming from you. You've got all that biodiversity!

 

[polyppal]

The big no no for me would be noticing dead fish in the tanks, or obviously sick fish in a tank with other fish.

While I rarely buy livestock from LFS, there are fish I would’ve never been interested in from seeing photos online that are really quite neat in person (engineer goby)

 

[amygetsalife]

. I have two or three within 15 minutes driving distance from me and another maybe an hour away. They all have their pros and cons depending on what you are looking for.

Id love to know if the one you won't do business with is one of your close ones or is it the one an hour away.

I hear one local shop to you is getting a lot of media attention now.

I'm willing to make the 10 hour trip to go to this store if that says anything about how well I like them.

I may have to plan a trip to Charlotte! I'd say it's 4 hours for me.

 

[Sink_or_Swim]

New to the hobby and checking out my local or local-ish fish shops/pet stores/etc. I have not been impressed. Maybe I'm being too critical? Looking at beautiful pictures online, which are carefully chosen and the shots framed just so, maybe has set up unrealistic expectations?

I understand that algae can happen to anyone and it can take a while to get it under control, and for herbivore fish, they need some to be happy, but shouldn't it look like someone is trying to control it? Especially around frags?

Aptasia... Yeah...it's there because they sell Aptasia eating file fish.......OK. How many tanks should be prepped and "ready for file fish"? All of them? Only about half of them? None of them? Maybe 2 of them?

Maintenance of tanks and shop? I thought they'd be kept clean and presentable. Silly me. I am pretty sure that a discussion before one of the shops I visited was opened was, "get all your nasty fish tanks out of the basement or I'm leaving!" It had an amazing amount of diversity and big specimens, but there were more 'mature' display tanks than your typical sale tanks and the display tanks seems to be a frag on demand kind of thing. Is that good? Normal? Like picking produce straight from the farm? I read somewhere that you wanted to see some growth on the frag plugs before buying? The newest display tank was gorgeous, but the rest?! Skimmer cups overflowing, was trying to figure out what I was looking at in one tank to realize that the 3 inch oval shape was one of the return pump outlets coated in....well...some of it was coraline algae. Not sure what was growing out of it above the waterline....

I have yet to buy livestock online, but may I'll need to. I definitely feel good about the extra spending on quarantine tanks now, but I don't want to buy knowing that they need quarantined. I was less horrified by the tanks at Petco which were obviously in the midst of the ugly stage with dinos, slimes, etc. Though I saw less algae and aptasia there than in some of the shops. But I didn't expect much out of them and won't buy livestock there. I want to support local.

What do you look for in a good shop? What makes you walk out and say, NOPE? What do you overlook as a trade off for local and nearby? Maybe I'm just in a bad area for this.

Pictures would be awesome. Who has a small local shop (in the US) that does a great job AND they sell online with good outcomes?

I am fortunate to have one or two decent LFS in my area. Nothing spectacular, but trustworthy and knowledgeable. In answer to your question, I will not purchase from a store if I see sick fish (other than if they are obviously in a quarantine/medicated tank), or dead fish. Period.
The next thing I look at is, how are their tanks? Are they clean (I don't care about some algae - it's a neverending battle. I mean like dirty gravel, murky water, etc).
I look at how many fish they have crammed together and if they are even compatible fish. I just wandered by the fish at Petsmart the other day while I was picking up my dogs' food, and they had like 6 juvenile oscars (maybe 3-4 inches at most) in a 10 gal tank - they had obviously been ganging up on and terrorizing one of the group. Dumb, sorry, and I felt bad for the poor fish getting torn up. (I don't buy fish from big box stores but still, can't stand seeing that).
The LFS I frequent most keeps some fish in community tanks by which ones would actually cohabitate in the wild, and I think that's really cool. I also appreciate when places list the common AND scientific names, and KNOW which fish in the tank are which.
I also pay attention to customer service (I'm in the service industry and it's a priority to me). That can literally be a hello when I walk in and when they get a chance, even if it's a while if they're busy, just stopping over and asking if I need anything. That's great in my book - I like to look and not be bothered too much.
Last but not least (I'm sure there are things I'm not thinking of), if they carry other animals, I go inspect all of those as well even though I'm not there to purchase anything. I want to see that everything is taken care of properly, clean, healthy, etc.

 

[cconnolly]

My favorite LFS is a filthy, dis questing shop but I go there for fish. I don't have to live there. I am not looking for advice but if I was, the place with the same owner has been there for 50 years.

This quote describes the closest LFS to me. Its been open 40 years with the same owner who is knowledgeable and very personable. I think the store has probably not been cleaned since it opened. Are some of his tanks dirtier than I would like? Absolutely! Do I use caution when buying fish/corals from him? Yes but you should with any shop no matter how clean it looks.

When I look at a shop the first thing I look at is how are the tanks plumbed. IE is each tank an individual system or are they shared banks or just one central setup. This helps me decide how much risk there is if I see 1 unhealthy looking fish. I'm not going to write off a whole shop because they might have an unhealthy fish as we all know it happens and they are at the mercy of their wholesalers. I would however elect not to buy a healthy looking fish from a tank that is hooked up to the same bank that a tank with an unhealthy fish is in. That risk isn't worth it to me. I'm less picky about corals and if the one I want looks healthy Ill go for it even if I see nuisance items in the tanks. Im going to inspect and dip it when I get home anyways and when you order online god only knows what that place looked like the day your shipment went out.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Selection
knowledge
Pricing
Location
Friendliness of staff

 

[G Santana]

I have 3 types near me The Good, The Bad and the Ugly.

I try to avoid those that try to sell everything, birds, snakes, turtles, fresh and saltwater...
These stores more often than not are just trying to turn a buck and usually the animals in their care suffer.
The second type are the big box stores that make money off of dry goods but sell fish as a side gig.
The third store are those stores that cater to fish goods and animals and know what they have, how to care for them and can express their knowledge to you about a number of hobby related issues.
The last tend to be the best but also the most expensive.

Choose wisely.

 

[JumboShrimp]

BAD: Fish in one tank with Ich... then noticing that ALL tanks have interconnected plumbing.

 

[Paul B]

Just finished reading your book yesterday and makes perfect sense coming from you. You've got all that biodiversity!

Thank you, I hope you enjoyed it.

 

[Mark Gray]

Good write up. I have one LFS I go to just to find sick fish lol at bargain prices

 

[amygetsalife]

Thank you, I hope you enjoyed it.

I did! And I hope to do some of your DIYs. Think it will be a good way to get my kids involved

 

[muzikalmatt]

Id love to know if the one you won't do business with is one of your close ones or is it the one an hour away.

I hear one local shop to you is getting a lot of media attention now.


I may have to plan a trip to Charlotte! I'd say it's 4 hours for me.

Haha! It's funny you ask! The one I won't do business with is the closest one to me by a long shot, and they are the same one that's been in the media lately. I have several stories about that place, and none of them are pleasant.

And @G Santana really hit the nail on the head for me, we go to the LFS for their knowledge of their product and the hobby at large. I enjoy going to the LFS just to talk about the hobby with the owner and other local hobbyists.

 

[Sshannon]

I ask if the animals go through quarantine before going on sale. Only one of my lfs quarantines new fish and invert arrivals. I'm not talking about just, "deworming fdipping". I mean these guys run them on quarantine for 3 -4 weeks in 40+ separately plumbed hospital tanks before they get moved to large for sale systems.

They also quarantine their inverts, and scrub shells when possible.

The cost of quarantined animals is reflected in thier prices tho. They've been local for a number of years, but hope to go online next year.