What does the damage caused by flukes actually look like?

[The Opinionated Reefer]

What does the damage caused by flukes actually look like?

I see many posts with unclear pictures and uncertain answers like it could be flukes but nobody is sure etc.

Can anyone post up clear photos of what a fish with fluke damage to its skin looks like?

 

[vetteguy53081]

What does the damage caused by flukes actually look like?

I see many posts with unclear pictures and uncertain answers like it could be flukes but nobody is sure etc.

Can anyone post up clear photos of what a fish with fluke damage to its skin looks like?

You will see heavy breathing , cloudy eyes and scars from fish scratching itself, twitching-darting-flashing and loss of appetite are behaviors if flukes

 

[Jay Hemdal]

What does the damage caused by flukes actually look like?

I see many posts with unclear pictures and uncertain answers like it could be flukes but nobody is sure etc.

Can anyone post up clear photos of what a fish with fluke damage to its skin looks like?

It depends on the species of fluke and the severity of the infection. In some cases, fish have flukes with no outward symptoms at all. As the population builds, you’ll start to see the behavior changes that @vetteguy53081 noted. Eventually, the fish will just look “shop worn” - glassy eyes, pale coloration and tattered fins.
Neobenedenia flukes will cause cloudy eyes in addition to those symptoms. That is the only fluke large enough to see in FW dips without a microscope.
Jay

 

[TerraFerma]

Keep in mind the flukes can be totally transparent - you can notice symptoms long before you can see anything is off visually, hence the lack of definitive pics.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I am pretty sure I have introduced flukes into my sps reef tank on a pyramid butterfly. Some of my fish have been acting funny and now my large yellow tang seems to be getting the odd red blotch on its skin which appears then dissapears. Never seen anything like this on the fish in the 4 years I have had it. One of my other usually healthy fish got pop-eye out of the blue and then it went away again. The pyramid seems to have the some damaged scales and keeps going up to the large hermit crabs and trying to get them to clean it. I looked closely at the pyramid for a while and spotted what looks like a fluke on its eye.

This is an established reef tank with Acropora healthy and growing so it's not a water quality issue. Nitrates are like 1ppm and phos 0.1.

I have Fluke solve on hand and I hear it's safe to dose into a reef tank?

What is the exact procedure here?
As far as I can tell I can dose at 1g per 250L and then after 72 hours perform a water change.
When do I re-dose after this to kill any newly hatched eggs?

That should then be all there is to it correct? I want to nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I am pretty sure I have introduced flukes into my sps reef tank on a pyramid butterfly. Some of my fish have been acting funny and now my large yellow tang seems to be getting the odd red blotch on its skin which appears then dissapears. Never seen anything like this on the fish in the 4 years I have had it. One of my other usually healthy fish got pop-eye out of the blue and then it went away again. The pyramid seems to have the some damaged scales and keeps going up to the large hermit crabs and trying to get them to clean it. I looked closely at the pyramid for a while and spotted what looks like a fluke on its eye.

This is an established reef tank with Acropora healthy and growing so it's not a water quality issue. Nitrates are like 1ppm and phos 0.1.

I have Fluke solve on hand and I hear it's safe to dose into a reef tank?

What is the exact procedure here?
As far as I can tell I can dose at 1g per 250L and then after 72 hours perform a water change.
When do I re-dose after this to kill any newly hatched eggs?

That should then be all there is to it correct? I want to nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand.

I’ve never dosed fluke solve in a reef. Praziquantel is mostly reef safe, but fluke solve has a couple additional ingredients that act as dispersants, not sure about them.
Pyramid butterflies often arrive with Neobenedenia flukes. Those are difficult to cure with praziquantel. It can take up to five doses, spaced at 8 days apart to break the life cycle.
I always use hyposalinity against Neobenedenia now, prazi failed me to often. It’s complicated, but with each dose of prazi, bacteria grows that consumes prazi, removing it faster with each subsequent dose, until it just stops working.
Jay

 

[Muffin87]

I’ve never dosed fluke solve in a reef. Praziquantel is mostly reef safe, but fluke solve has a couple additional ingredients that act as dispersants, not sure about them.
Pyramid butterflies often arrive with Neobenedenia flukes. Those are difficult to cure with praziquantel. It can take up to five doses, spaced at 8 days apart to break the life cycle.
I always use hyposalinity against Neobenedenia now, prazi failed me to often. It’s complicated, but with each dose of prazi, bacteria grows that consumes prazi, removing it faster with each subsequent dose, until it just stops working.
Jay

What level of hyposalinity for Neobenedenia?
Just curious if it’s the same for ich.

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Here's a couple pics I recently took showing Neobenedenia flukes on a skunk tilefish (currently being treated in quarantine with prazi and freshwater/formalin baths). In this pic, 1 fluke is clearly visible on the eye of the tilefish, another just behind it on the red stripe, and a 3rd is in the white area above the fluke on the red stripe.

As Jay stated earlier, Neobenedenia flukes are a pain to eradicate, and I usually clear them up with prazi every 8 days, along with frequent freshwater baths and formalin baths. Cupramine does not kill them, however it seems to slow down their reproduction some. I have also found running a sponge filter on top of the HOB filter in quarantine helps keep dissolved oxygen levels up and makes it a bit easier for the fish affected by flukes to breathe. One of my favorite LFS seems to have many more fish with Neobenedenia flukes, along with the various smaller body and gill flukes, so I've gotten to where all new fish are profilactically treated for them, along with treating for ich and velvet.

Edit: usually I see glancing off of rockwork/substrate, more rapid gill breathing rates and ragged fins in heavily infected fish, secondary bacterial infections on the skin, fins, and eyes, and fish will twitch in the water column, a sign of irritation.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Here's a couple pics I recently took showing Neobenedenia flukes on a skunk tilefish (currently being treated in quarantine with prazi and freshwater/formalin baths). In this pic, 1 fluke is clearly visible on the eye of the tilefish, another just behind it on the red stripe, and a 3rd is in the white area above the fluke on the red stripe.

As Jay stated earlier, Neobenedenia flukes are a pain to eradicate, and I usually clear them up with prazi every 8 days, along with frequent freshwater baths and formalin baths. Cupramine does not kill them, however it seems to slow down their reproduction some. I have also found running a sponge filter on top of the HOB filter in quarantine helps keep dissolved oxygen levels up and makes it a bit easier for the fish affected by flukes to breathe. One of my favorite LFS seems to have many more fish with Neobenedenia flukes, along with the various smaller body and gill flukes, so I've gotten to where all new fish are profilactically treated for them, along with treating for ich and velvet.

Edit: usually I see glancing off of rockwork/substrate, more rapid gill breathing rates and ragged fins in heavily infected fish, secondary bacterial infections on the skin, fins, and eyes, and fish will twitch in the water column, a sign of irritation.

Those look like what I can see on the Pyramid butterfly's eye.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Why are Neobenedenia flukes more difficult to cure with praziquantel? Remember these are in an active reef tank and if I do nothing these will stay in the tank forever and infect every fish right?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

What level of hyposalinity for Neobenedenia?
Just curious if it’s the same for ich.

Ich requires a lower salinity to cure; a specific gravity of 1.009 to fight ich and 1.012 for Neobenedenia.

Of course, the ich treatment level also works for Neobenedenia, but it is more stressful and riskier.

Jay

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I just dosed fluke solve and within 5 mins i can see flukes starting to peal off the pyramid butterfly! It must have been crawling with them.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I just dosed fluke solve and within 5 mins i can see flukes starting to peal off the pyramid butterfly! It must have been crawling with them.

If you can see them with the naked eye, those are Neobenedenia. The I hatched eggs are not killed by the fluke solve. You’ll need to redose to try and kill them as they hatch, but before they can lay their own eggs.
Jay

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

If you can see them with the naked eye, those are Neobenedenia. The I hatched eggs are not killed by the fluke solve. You’ll need to redose to try and kill them as they hatch, but before they can lay their own eggs.
Jay

yes i plan to dose again in 7 days then again 7 days after that.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

This is feed back I got from the guys that make Fluke solve:

Dear Andrew,

Our Fluke-Solve Aquarium is a bit different to all the other praziquantel containing products in that the praziquantel will completely dissolve in the tank water within 48 hours. The original dose can last for up to 3 weeks in the tank, unless there is something in your system which will interfere with it -such as protein skimmers, carbon-containing filter media etc. Therefore 2 doses 3 weeks apart should do it.

The other issues are if you have got creatures such as feather dusters since prazi will kill them.

Best regards

Dr Fiona Macdonald BVMS MRCVDS
Managing Director
Fish Treatment Ltd

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This is feed back I got from the guys that make Fluke solve:

Dear Andrew,

Our Fluke-Solve Aquarium is a bit different to all the other praziquantel containing products in that the praziquantel will completely dissolve in the tank water within 48 hours. The original dose can last for up to 3 weeks in the tank, unless there is something in your system which will interfere with it -such as protein skimmers, carbon-containing filter media etc. Therefore 2 doses 3 weeks apart should do it.

The other issues are if you have got creatures such as feather dusters since prazi will kill them.

Best regards

Dr Fiona Macdonald BVMS MRCVDS
Managing Director
Fish Treatment Ltd

Well, unfortunately, they aren't correct with Prazi remaining active for that 3 week period of time. Here is one paper that discusses that:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4824874/

Prazi breaks down in 8 days, and with each subsequent dose, it breaks down even faster. the reason is that heterotrophic bacteria quickly grow that consume the prazi. After about 5 treatments, prazi is pretty much useless.


Jay

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I am starting to see a bit of bleaching on some of my sps. Not rtn or stn actual bleaching where the tissue is still their its just white. There's always a price to pay when you dose anything in an sps tank.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I am starting to see a bit of bleaching on some of my sps. Not rtn or stn actual bleaching where the tissue is still their its just white. There's always a price to pay when you dose anything in an sps tank.

Ugh - corals are usually O.K. With prazi…..
Jay

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Are these worms host specific or will they spread to every fish in the tank? What is the fallow period required to let them die out?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Are these worms host specific or will they spread to every fish in the tank? What is the fallow period required to let them die out?

Neobenedenia is less host-specific than many other species of fluke, but they don't infect all species. They don't seem to infect scaleless fish, or fish with ctenoid as often as fish with big cycloid scales.

Here is a chart from my fish disease book regarding the most commonly infected species:

Angelfish, Pomacanthus sp. ++
Barrimundi, Lates sp. ++
Batfish, Platax sp. +++
Butterflyfish, Chaetodon sp. ++
Cichlid, Tilapia sp. +++ (when housed in seawater)
Invertebrates 0 (but may carry eggs)
Jacks, Caraganidae +++
Lionfish, Pterois sp. +
Lookdowns, Selene sp. +++
Pyramid butterflyfish, Hemitaurichthys sp. +++
Grouper family, Serranidae ++
Garden eel, Taenioconger sp. +
Remora, Echeneis sp. +
Sharks and rays, Elasmobranchs 0
Surgeonfish, Acanthurus sp. ++
Spadefish, Chaetodipterus faber +++

Aquarium hosts for Neobenedenia sp. 0=not infected, + = sometimes infected, ++=commonly infected, +++=very commonly infected (From Bullard et-al 2000 and personal obs.)

The fallow period needs to account for all unhatched eggs, and then, for any swimming larva to die out. A well-respected public aquarist who has studied these thinks that 14 days is sufficient to break the life cycle. I go 35 days, just to be safe....I'm not convinced that the eggs *must* hatch, I think they can linger for longer.

Jay