What is best? Zero nitrates and phosphates or low nitrates and phosphates?

[Jerry Dennis]

I've been to a few stores and talked to a few individuals and there seems to be a mixed opinion on whether there should be zero nitrates and phosphates or a very low amount. The reason I have been asking is that I have diatoms and they seem to be clearing up. My parameters are as follows....
Ph.50 calcium 500 salinity 1.026 dKH between 8-9 nitrate .05
What is the general consensus on both phosphates and nitrates? This can be very frustrating!

 

[SPR1968]

Phosphate needs to be locked down very low at around 0.03ppm and nitrate is fine around 5-10ppm or thereabouts. You dont want zero nitrate or you can run into all sorts of issues.

If you can keep the phosphate locked down you will avoid many problems. This tells you why but it might make your ‘head hurt’ a bit!

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/

If your phosphate is 0.50 (I’m assuming Ph means phosphate. If you mean pH at 0.5 your in trouble! Lol) that’s very high so maybe look at ways to reduce it like GFO. I run rowaphos 24/7 in both my tanks and have no issues.

And welcome to R2R as well Jerry!

 

[X-37B]

You need both. Some run higher levels than others with good results.
Mine run 1-2 no3 and .02-.06 po4.
Best advice is pick the level you want as long as you have no issues and keep them "STABLE".

 

[Jvalle]

Hi I stay at zero or very close to it. I was told by a coral farmer that 0 is they way to go. He’s been doing it for over 40 years and keeps his at zero . I know

Phosphate needs to be locked down very low at around 0.03ppm and nitrate is fine around 5-10ppm or thereabouts. You dont want zero nitrate or you can run into all sorts of issues.

If you can keep the phosphate locked down you will avoid many problems.

If your phosphate is 0.50 that’s very high so maybe look at ways to reduce it like GFO. I run rowaphos 24/7 in both my tanks and have no issues.

And welcome to R2R as well Jerry!

hi I have been running 0 nitrates with no problem for years on several tanks and noticed better coral color and extension when nitrates and phosphates are zero. It’s really up to your corals and how they do under different levels of nutrients . This is a tough question and I am not a marine biologist but for me 0 works best. Thx

 

[KrisReef]

I have heard these measure zero on the reef because they are actively uptaken from the environment by the coral & plants that live there. Our reefs require some nitrate and phosphorus to be available to allow them to grow. If we allow our numbers to go to zero many people have difficulties.

The difference is that a wild reef has a huge ocean that moves by it every day and there is enough trace nutrients (and plankton) that the coral is able to glean from. Zero in our tanks is more like a negative number in the ocean,due to scale of water changes.

 

[Jvalle]

Here are some pics with 0 ppm thx

 

[Jvalle]

I have heard these measure zero on the reef because they are actively uptaken from the environment by the coral & plants that live there. Our reefs require some nitrate and phosphorus to be available to allow them to grow. If we allow our numbers to go to zero many people have difficulties.

The difference is that a wild reef has a huge ocean that moves by it every day and there is enough trace nutrients (and plankton) that the coral is able to glean from. Zero in our tanks is more like a negative number in the ocean,due to scale of water changes.

Yes agree 100 % my chaeto and corals consume it and keep it at 0.

 

[KrisReef]

@Jvalle Your tank pictures are beautiful and your nutrient balance is impeccable! You have done the (nearly) impossible with your captive reef.

 

[Neoalchemist]

The problem is, there is no grey area between low and no when it comes to po4. "Low" equals spectacular, where as "No" equals death.

 

[Jvalle]

@Jvalle Your tank pictures are beautiful and your nutrient balance is impeccable! You have done the (nearly) impossible with your captive reef.

Thanks yes I am crazy with the maintenance I have it in the living room wall so it’s a show piece and have to keep it clean or my wife will kill me lol

 

[User1]

You are going to get varying opinions on this but the long and short of it is this. Bingo nutrients isn't an option anymore. Low, yes. Zero, no. Every tank is different so the onus is on the hobbyist to find that balance. And...that is what most of us do. We balance the overall health of the tank to our tolerance of nuisance algae. We add in herbivores sized properly to fill in the gaps. These are called clean up crews and utility fish (tangs, blennies, etc).

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

I learned chasing numbers isnt super helpful. Low or no po4 and no3 can both work. They both can have there own set of problems too. Balance, stability and finding what works for your tank is important.

 

[NS Mike D]

I've always wondered if the reefers with 0 NO3 and 0 PO4 without issues have accurate test kits that can measure so precisely. I've read a few posts that claim the Hanna PO4 is the way to go as the titration kits are subject to user error.

From first hand experience, I'm pretty careful and precise, but I don't trust my readings to be exact. But I am comfortable running my tank parameters within a reasonable range.

 

[Neoalchemist]

Here are some pics with 0 ppm thx

Fantastic... but...
This is a perfect example of tank specifics dictating a course of action that may not be best for other tanks.
In an established tank stocked well with biome built over time thats fed on schedule and has a balanced fish stock. The rules are a bit differant. A younger tank that is less established does not contain any no3 or po4 reserves to maintain the bacterial and microbial populations that the tank and corals need to stay stable.
Also testing practices matter, which test kits you use, when you test, and your testing procedures.
But mostly experience and tank observation will be what you rely on most down the road. For newer tanks in the first year or second year zero no3 or po4 should be a big no no.
Once a hobbiest experiences the effects of prolonged true"zero" on the nutrient test kits, (which is virtually impossible on an older tank due to the reserves built up over the years in the rock, sand, algea and bacteria populations.) That hobbiest will likely never allow a tank to get that low again.

 

[Jvalle]

Fantastic... but...
This is a perfect example of tank specifics dictating a course of action that may not be best for other tanks.
In an established tank stocked well with biome built over time thats fed on schedule and has a balanced fish stock. The rules are a bit differant. A younger tank that is less established does not contain any no3 or po4 reserves to maintain the bacterial and microbial populations that the tank and corals need to stay stable.
Also testing practices matter, which test kits you use, when you test, and your testing procedures.
But mostly experience and tank observation will be what you rely on most down the road. For newer tanks in the first year or second year zero no3 or po4 should be a big no no.
Once a hobbiest experiences the effects of prolonged true"zero" on the nutrient test kits, (which is virtually impossible on an older tank due to the reserves built up over the years in the rock, sand, algea and bacteria populations.) That hobbiest will likely never allow a tank to get that low again.

Hi I agree all tanks are different and you need to try out different approaches until u find the best results. The coral speak for themselves and are a good indication for me of how my tank is running. I use API and am comfortable being in a range although it may not be 100% accurate thx

 

[Neoalchemist]

I've always wondered if the reefers with 0 NO3 and 0 PO4 without issues have accurate test kits that can measure so precisely. I've read a few posts that claim the Hanna PO4 is the way to go as the titration kits are subject to user error.

From first hand experience, I'm pretty careful and precise, but I don't trust my readings to be exact. But I am comfortable running my tank parameters within a reasonable range.

When it comes to po4 I believe the only test worth its wieght is the Hanna hi 736 phosphorus ULR. It requires a unit conversion from phosphorous to phosphate. It is the only test whose error range is within the perameters we are testing for. And anyone with plans to grow stony corals should place it very high on thier needs list.

Also, great point. Tank health and appearance need to be factored in to your test results. If test results show zero repeatedly but the tank looks great then maybe wait and see a bit before action.

 

[Jvalle]

What I have learned over the years is that Stability is the most important factor for success. Keep it simple also. Every tank is different and there is no one size fits all approach in reefing . Thx

 

[Xero]

0 and 0 means you're starving the tank, no question. but when a test result is 0 - why is it 0? is it zero because you sucked it all out, or underfed it? Or it is 0 because the tank is consuming exactly what you put in? It's when the ratio is off, and the tank is consuming more than you put in, that's when you are going to run into problems. sometimes, this isn't so much a thing you can test for....people get into this information overload state with all this testing, but these things need fed, let's not pretend you can just starve the tank.

 

[PatW]

I run a pretty low nutrient SPS dominant tank. I have moved away from being ultra low nutrient. I have noticed that 0 for either nitrates or phosphates is hard on acropora corals. I maintain nitrates at about 2 ppm and phosphates at .02 - .04. I maintain levels by dosing nitrates and phosphates as well as feeding. My nitrates are pretty stable. My phosphates can deplete rapidly because of vigorous export. I am toying with the notion of increasing phosphates a tad until I reach a more stable level.

 

[saltyhog]

Running 0 and 0 is walking a tight rope that can go great for a while...even a long while. Eventually though you are very likely to have serious even disastrous problems. One reason for this is zero doesn't necessarily mean zero. What I mean by that is depending on your test kit zero can mean low but present. This is especially true with PO4 where many tests can't detect levels below 0.02. I would suggest that most if not all of those successful tanks running 0 and 0 are actually running low but present levels.

There are many beautiful tanks with PO4 above 0.1. As many have said, strive for stability and WATCH your corals.