Why 10% & Can You Change Too Much Water?

[ca1ore]

When I moved our tank I did a 100% water change and it caused a bacterial bloom for a few days. No sand bed and all the same rock. I hope I "fundamentally" know my tank. Lol.

I would hope so too. Did you expect that it would recycle?

 

[ca1ore]

I stated it could start a mini cycle....COULD not that it would. Changing out a large volume of water has proven in the past to cause bacterial blooms.

Fair enough, I suppose anything's possible. I certainly agree that large water changes, and particularly tank swaps, can trigger blooms. Usually diatoms rather than bacteria for me though.

I guess using the term 'fundamentally' was unnecessarily pejorative . I don't have infinite editing privilege here like I do on that other forum ..... Otherwise I'd change it.

 

[DSC reef]

I would hope so too. Did you expect that it would recycle?

Didn't expect anything but a bloom happened so maybe things happen that we don't know...... your response that someone fundamentally doesn't know there tank was a little off to me. No worries though.

 

[ca1ore]

Type first .... Then think ..... Then read .... Then re-think ..... Then fix (if there's still editing time LOL). It's actually why I don't tweet. Too many ways to say things I should keep to myself.

 

[DSC reef]

Type first .... Then think ..... Then read .... Then re-think ..... Then fix (if there's still editing time LOL). It's actually why I don't tweet. Too many ways to say things I should keep to myself.

Ha, ha. Good point.

 

[Crabs McJones]

Fair enough, I suppose anything's possible. I certainly agree that large water changes, and particularly tank swaps, can trigger blooms. Usually diatoms rather than bacteria for me though.

I guess using the term 'fundamentally' was unnecessarily pejorative . I don't have infinite editing privilege here like I do on that other forum ..... Otherwise I'd change it.

No problem, were good

 

[Elegance Coral]

The right conditions are required to fuel a bacteria bloom. There are many factors that can play a roll. Oxygen content, temperature, the presence, or lack, of competing organisms............. Arguably, the one, most important factor, is the availability of nutrients. Simply put, you can not have a bacteria bloom unless there are nutrients present to fuel it.
If you take a BB tank, where food is regularly added to the water, fish and other organisms are constantly defecating and releasing nutrients into the water, and organics are breaking down in the rocks to release nutrients, there will always be nutrients available. In such an established system, bacteria blooms are rare due to filtration, and the number of organisms present that utilize those nutrients and keep the concentration from growing large enough to fuel a bacteria bloom.
Simply removing that water, along with the nutrients it contains, and replacing it with RO/DI water mixed with a reputable salt brand, can not cause a bacteria bloom. In such a case, the available nutrient level will decrease due to the water change.
During a tank move, there are many events that can lead to a bacteria bloom. How the rock is transported is a major part of that. Extremes of temperature, lack of oxygen, and lack of water, are just some examples of conditions that can lead to the death of organisms within the rocks. Any organisms that parish in the rocks, from microbes to pods and worms, or even sponges and coral, will decompose once the tank is set back up. Those decomposing organisms will release nutrients that are likely to fuel bacteria, or other unwanted blooms.
IMHO, if a bacteria bloom fallows a BB tank move and 100% water change, there are other factors involved than the water change itself. A properly carried out water change, regardless of how large or small it is, can not cause a bacteria bloom.
Peace
EC

 

[Lollipop]

IMHO, if a bacteria bloom fallows a BB tank move and 100% water change, there are other factors involved than the water change itself. A properly carried out water change, regardless of how large or small it is, ca

Well if your water is rodi, then there shouldn’t be any bacteria it in. I don’t know whether there are any “chemical” reactions between different bacteria’s (LOL) to transform bacteria into different form of organisms, then bloom shouldn’t happen- according to the ‘biology or chemistry 101?’ Don’t ask me it’s been so long!
Anyway, I am starting to wonder about the whole water quality & water change. I have two reef tanks, one at home and one in office. I do water changes and do a lot of things that are recommended in reef keeping but the home one isn’t very stabilized... but the office one (I change 10% water every other month - by juat a matter of doubt, not necessity) and it does so well in just a 5 gallon space ( be my surprise, I don’t even mix salt in bucket before water change, I add salt in chamber on the back along with rodi). Well, equipments are limited in the office - I do my best to minimize inventory that isn’t related to my work! Yes some corals show some distress by contacting the salt directly but soon they become ok. They look so happy!
Anyway, I go to office 2-4 times a week and only twice a month during simmer. It is the cleanest and most peaceful reef tank in the world self contained. There are lots of pods in display (no sump, aio type) and I do believe they are the secrets, Because I did have all algae and water problems before they got populated in the tank.
So I am starting to think that developing right food chain is what you need, rather than water change, skimmer, dosing etc... my home one had gone through all due to my worries!

FYI, I don’t even dose the office one regularly, just whenever I go to the office. I got a doser there but it’s sitting there not connected because I am starting to believe it’s not needed...

 

[DSC reef]

The right conditions are required to fuel a bacteria bloom. There are many factors that can play a roll. Oxygen content, temperature, the presence, or lack, of competing organisms............. Arguably, the one, most important factor, is the availability of nutrients. Simply put, you can not have a bacteria bloom unless there are nutrients present to fuel it.
If you take a BB tank, where food is regularly added to the water, fish and other organisms are constantly defecating and releasing nutrients into the water, and organics are breaking down in the rocks to release nutrients, there will always be nutrients available. In such an established system, bacteria blooms are rare due to filtration, and the number of organisms present that utilize those nutrients and keep the concentration from growing large enough to fuel a bacteria bloom.
Simply removing that water, along with the nutrients it contains, and replacing it with RO/DI water mixed with a reputable salt brand, can not cause a bacteria bloom. In such a case, the available nutrient level will decrease due to the water change.
During a tank move, there are many events that can lead to a bacteria bloom. How the rock is transported is a major part of that. Extremes of temperature, lack of oxygen, and lack of water, are just some examples of conditions that can lead to the death of organisms within the rocks. Any organisms that parish in the rocks, from microbes to pods and worms, or even sponges and coral, will decompose once the tank is set back up. Those decomposing organisms will release nutrients that are likely to fuel bacteria, or other unwanted blooms.
IMHO, if a bacteria bloom fallows a BB tank move and 100% water change, there are other factors involved than the water change itself. A properly carried out water change, regardless of how large or small it is, can not cause a bacteria bloom.
Peace
EC

The tank was setup 5 years prior, the water change was done properly, thanks. You have your opinion and I respectfully have mine. Happy reefing

 

[vetteguy53081]

 

[Lollipop]

Water change is not the issue, water quality is. They are not the same!

 

[roberthu526]

I change 25-30 gallon on my 125 very month because I use a 30 gallon brute. Not sure where the 10% come from.

 

[Forsaken77]

Well if your water is rodi, then there shouldn’t be any bacteria it in. I don’t know whether there are any “chemical” reactions between different bacteria’s (LOL) to transform bacteria into different form of organisms, then bloom shouldn’t happen- according to the ‘biology or chemistry 101?’ Don’t ask me it’s been so long!
Anyway, I am starting to wonder about the whole water quality & water change. I have two reef tanks, one at home and one in office. I do water changes and do a lot of things that are recommended in reef keeping but the home one isn’t very stabilized... but the office one (I change 10% water every other month - by juat a matter of doubt, not necessity) and it does so well in just a 5 gallon space ( be my surprise, I don’t even mix salt in bucket before water change, I add salt in chamber on the back along with rodi). Well, equipments are limited in the office - I do my best to minimize inventory that isn’t related to my work! Yes some corals show some distress by contacting the salt directly but soon they become ok. They look so happy!
Anyway, I go to office 2-4 times a week and only twice a month during simmer. It is the cleanest and most peaceful reef tank in the world self contained. There are lots of pods in display (no sump, aio type) and I do believe they are the secrets, Because I did have all algae and water problems before they got populated in the tank.
So I am starting to think that developing right food chain is what you need, rather than water change, skimmer, dosing etc... my home one had gone through all due to my worries!

FYI, I don’t even dose the office one regularly, just whenever I go to the office. I got a doser there but it’s sitting there not connected because I am starting to believe it’s not needed...

It has to do with bacteria in/on the rock also (or any media present), which was transferred. When you knock things out of routine and stability it can open channels for other biologicals to spike or decline. 10 people can carry out the same action on their tanks and get 10 different reactions.

I'm guessing your office tank is fishless? And your home one is not? Just because you said you're there twice a month. How do you deal with evaporation if you're not there?

 

[Lollipop]

I'm guessing your office tank is fishless? And your home one is not? Just because you said you're there twice a month. How do you deal with evaporation if you're not there?

Yes it is fishless and I had pull one out realizing she won’t be happy while I am away from office.

Ato and skimmer are the ones that are installed with the amazing self contained office tank (5g). Hence the reason for me to go to the office twice a month.

 

[RoyinSpain]

You need to asking yourself why do water changes? If it is to get rid of nutrients, then you need to look at your sumps, skimmer, liverock, matrix, chaeto etc and your stocking and fedfing.
If it is to replace other elements , you should conscons adding them.
Look up the Triton method.....

 

[gcrawford]

I change half of my water volume out every 6 months. Works perfectly for me.....

 

[Forsaken77]

You need to asking yourself why do water changes? If it is to get rid of nutrients, then you need to look at your sumps, skimmer, liverock, matrix, chaeto etc and your stocking and fedfing.
If it is to replace other elements , you should conscons adding them.
Look up the Triton method.....

I know the Triton method and was running macro before it was even a method. It's just that the chaeto was extremely messy, getting everywhere after trimming and the light was growing micro algae in all areas of the sump.

It's more of a FOWLR tank, so the nutrient removal will only go so far with a skimmer, rock and marine pure.

 

[drblakjak55]

I change 24 g now every three weeks into a 90g. Made night before, heated. IO Reef salt since start.
Keep half the sand bed clean with each water change and blow out the rocks. Throw in half shot of vodka every few days.
No testing. No dosing. Keep it simple keeps it stable.

 

[curiouser]

When the recommendation is 10% (or whatever %) does that mean 10% of the rated volume of the aquarium or 10% of rated volume corrected for estimated volume of rock and sand (or gravel)?

 

[NY_Caveman]

When the recommendation is 10% (or whatever %) does that mean 10% of the rated volume of the aquarium or 10% of rated volume corrected for estimated volume of rock and sand (or gravel)?

I do any and all calculations on tanks over the years with actual water volume.