Will carbon dosing help in my situation?

[pixelhustler]

I have a 75g system that has been running for 3 years. I used to feed a lot to make sure my wrasses didn’t take all the food from my pipefish and mandarins. I’ve since cut feeding to 3 cubes of frozen and 1 auto feeding of pellets.

My nitrate used to be at 40+ until I started running a sulfur denitrator. Currently it’s running at around 5-8ppm. The problem is I can’t seem to get my phosphate in line. I run GFO but the costs are getting prohibitive at this point. I have tried to run Phosguard along with GFO to help extract any phosphate that might be leaching from my rocks and sand but as soon as I stop the Phosguard, my GFO can’t keep up. This way I’ve been able to get phosphate between .2-.3 but my goal is <.05.

TLDR: Will carbon dosing help lower high phosphate (.3) with only ~6ppm of nitrate in my water? And would vodka or vinegar be best in this situation?

 

[sixty_reefer]

I think you have everything in a nice balance regarding nutrient, why not look at a better way to remove phosphates. I would consider lanthanum chloride first before doing any major changes, for phosphates reduction using carbon dosing you would have to reduce or remove the sulphur reactor and this could cause unbalanced nutrients until the right dose is achieved.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I think you have everything in a nice balance regarding nutrient, why not look at a better way to remove phosphates. I would consider lanthanum chloride first before doing any major changes, for phosphates reduction using carbon dosing you would have to reduce or remove the sulphur reactor and this could cause unbalanced nutrients until the right dose is achieved.

^Something like this... Lanthanum Chloride, carefully applied, would be a good and inexpensive approach. It could easily replace all the phosphate removers you are using. If your sulphur reactor is controlling nitrates by itself, you could wean the tank off of carbon dosing altogether.

 

[Lavey29]

But even though your number is somewhat elevated how is the overall health of the tank? Tanks can run perfectly with elevated phosphate in certain situations. Just depends on the tank. Are your corals healthy? Nuisance algae?

 

[Jekyl]

Lotta food for a small tank. I feed 1 cube a day for my 90g

 

[Cali Reef Life]

Lotta food for a small tank. I feed 1 cube a day for my 90g

I just was thinking this! Some people like high in high out but I feed one cube and a pinch of random dry food 90 gallon 7 fish. Reef roids here and there. Feed less or pull more out those are your options. Simple equation but much harder to follow.

 

[arking_mark]

I'm not a fan of Lanthanum Chloride as it has the potential to sometimes cause issues.

Personally, I use a DIY NoPox for carbon dosing. I find it highly effective at controlling nutrients. It also has the benefit of maintaining beneficial bacteria that is part of the tanks ecosystem.

If your tank isn't having issues that may need more immediate attention, consider carbon dosing. Start at a very low dose and monitor nutrient impact. Bacteria grow exponentially...so it doesn't take long to see impacts, usually just a couple days. This method is most effective with a skimmer.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have a 75g system that has been running for 3 years. I used to feed a lot to make sure my wrasses didn’t take all the food from my pipefish and mandarins. I’ve since cut feeding to 3 cubes of frozen and 1 auto feeding of pellets.

My nitrate used to be at 40+ until I started running a sulfur denitrator. Currently it’s running at around 5-8ppm. The problem is I can’t seem to get my phosphate in line. I run GFO but the costs are getting prohibitive at this point. I have tried to run Phosguard along with GFO to help extract any phosphate that might be leaching from my rocks and sand but as soon as I stop the Phosguard, my GFO can’t keep up. This way I’ve been able to get phosphate between .2-.3 but my goal is <.05.

TLDR: Will carbon dosing help lower high phosphate (.3) with only ~6ppm of nitrate in my water? And would vodka or vinegar be best in this situation?

No, carbon dosing is not effective at lowering phosphate when nitrate is ok. A binder (such as GFO) or lanthanum solution would be the ways, or growing macroalgae plus nitrate dosing.

 

[pixelhustler]

But even though your number is somewhat elevated how is the overall health of the tank? Tanks can run perfectly with elevated phosphate in certain situations. Just depends on the tank. Are your corals healthy? Nuisance algae?

I have some issues with coral growth and some occasional tissue recession/bleaching, but it could very well be that I can’t keep phosphate in check and it constantly fluctuates. I’m trying to run a fairly stable/automated system with minimal WCs and I’ve got most items in check though my Skimmer/Alkatronic/Sulfur Denitrator, so I’d like to get my PO4 right so I can focus on enjoying the reef

I just was thinking this! Some people like high in high out but I feed one cube and a pinch of random dry food 90 gallon 7 fish. Reef roids here and there. Feed less or pull more out those are your options. Simple equation but much harder to follow.

I know this is the easiest path forward but I can’t help but worry about my smaller fish. I have a bunch of hungry wrasses, a couple of tiny yellow clown gobies and a pair of pipefish & mandarins. My mandarins are really fat though so I know I can cut down further

No, carbon dosing is not effective at lowering phosphate when nitrate is ok. A binder (such as GFO) or lanthanum solution would be the ways, or growing macroalgae plus nitrate dosing.

I’ve considered lanthanum but I’ve read horror stories, although I’m not sure how accurate. I did hear cautionary tales about sulfur denitrators and I think they’re mostly exaggerations/outliers. Is it fair to be wary about lanthanum or would you say it’s fairly safe? And are there any safety tips to keep in mind?

 

[Cali Reef Life]

I have some issues with coral growth and some occasional tissue recession/bleaching, but it could very well be that I can’t keep phosphate in check and it constantly fluctuates. I’m trying to run a fairly stable/automated system with minimal WCs and I’ve got most items in check though my Skimmer/Alkatronic/Sulfur Denitrator, so I’d like to get my PO4 right so I can focus on enjoying the reef


I know this is the easiest path forward but I can’t help but worry about my smaller fish. I have a bunch of hungry wrasses, a couple of tiny yellow clown gobies and a pair of pipefish & mandarins. My mandarins are really fat though so I know I can cut down further



I’ve considered lanthanum but I’ve read horror stories, although I’m not sure how accurate. I did hear cautionary tales about sulfur denitrators and I think they’re mostly exaggerations/outliers. Is it fair to be wary about lanthanum or would you say it’s fairly safe? And are there any safety tips to keep in mind?

I totally understand maybe switch to 1 cube every other day and get some copepods once a month. Then do a good turkey baster cleaning of sump and try cleaning some of your sand bed.

 

[Uncle99]

Carbon dosing works for nitrate reduction over time, but as stated, not much for phosphate.

Are you confident that your test is giving you an accurate reading. Do you experience slow growth? Pest algaes?

If not, I’d check that number before doing anything else.

If it is that high, LC first till down, then maintain with RowaPhos.

Go slow.

 

[Jekyl]

My mandarin has never eaten anything that I've fed the rest of the tank. She solely attacks the pods in the tank like it was her job. The same scenario exists for your pipefish. With that many pod hunters plus the wrasse you'd be better off dosing live phyto than feeding as much as you do. Unless I'm mistaken you have 4 fish that only eat pods in a smaller system. None of which will eat frozen or pellet foods by choice.

Edit: not meaning this in a snarky way. Just might be better food options.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

My mandarin has never eaten anything that I've fed the rest of the tank. She solely attacks the pods in the tank like it was her job. The same scenario exists for your pipefish. With that many pod hunters plus the wrasse you'd be better off dosing live phyto than feeding as much as you do. Unless I'm mistaken you have 4 fish that only eat pods in a smaller system. None of which will eat frozen or pellet foods by choice.

Edit: not meaning this in a snarky way. Just might be better food options.

All of my Mandarin’s including my pair of red Moyer scooter blennies eat frozen food that I feed the rest of the tank including pellets So to say none will eat frozen or pellets is wrong

 

[pixelhustler]

Carbon dosing works for nitrate reduction over time, but as stated, not much for phosphate.

Are you confident that your test is giving you an accurate reading. Do you experience slow growth? Pest algaes?

If not, I’d check that number before doing anything else.

If it is that high, LC first till down, then maintain with RowaPhos.

Go slow.

I use Hanna for phosphate. Not sure how accurate it is but it makes sense because my nitrates used to be pretty high before adding the sulfur denitrator. Except for my torches and a couple of species here and there, my corals grow very slowly. Algae is present but not out of control. I do need to find a solution long term as GFO is not feasible. Currently, 8tbsp of HC GFO are exhausted in 2-3 weeks. I believe my rocks are leaching phosphate as well.
I have been scared of LC all this time but it looks like it’s my only option for now.

 

[Dan_P]

I have a 75g system that has been running for 3 years. I used to feed a lot to make sure my wrasses didn’t take all the food from my pipefish and mandarins. I’ve since cut feeding to 3 cubes of frozen and 1 auto feeding of pellets.

My nitrate used to be at 40+ until I started running a sulfur denitrator. Currently it’s running at around 5-8ppm. The problem is I can’t seem to get my phosphate in line. I run GFO but the costs are getting prohibitive at this point. I have tried to run Phosguard along with GFO to help extract any phosphate that might be leaching from my rocks and sand but as soon as I stop the Phosguard, my GFO can’t keep up. This way I’ve been able to get phosphate between .2-.3 but my goal is <.05.

TLDR: Will carbon dosing help lower high phosphate (.3) with only ~6ppm of nitrate in my water? And would vodka or vinegar be best in this situation?

I like that you are focused on fish health. I have 6 green chromis and they get almost two frozen cubes per day. The fifteen large Mexican turbos get one sheet of dried seaweed every evening. The Ulva keeps NO3 below 10 ppm but PO4 is around 0.4 ppm. No stony coral so it doesn't matter. I had a green chromis runt with a damaged mouth that could only eat certain size food. I too overfed to ensure the runt ate. It worked for a couple years before it finally died.

Have you had much luck directly feeding the smaller fish other than the chumming method? For example, I had luck feeding aggressive eaters with a long acrylic rod. I was able to “stuff“ them with chunks of food with near zero waste. As for the shy eaters I would try pipetting food near them assuming the big eaters will leave it alone. Maybe you could stuff the big ones first to slow them down before pipette feeding the little ones.

 

[pixelhustler]

My mandarin has never eaten anything that I've fed the rest of the tank. She solely attacks the pods in the tank like it was her job. The same scenario exists for your pipefish. With that many pod hunters plus the wrasse you'd be better off dosing live phyto than feeding as much as you do. Unless I'm mistaken you have 4 fish that only eat pods in a smaller system. None of which will eat frozen or pellet foods by choice.

Edit: not meaning this in a snarky way. Just might be better food options.

I have a refugium and what seems to be a healthy pod population but I worry it might not be enough. Both my mandarins and pipefish eat frozen but it has to make it to the sandbed so I have been over feeding for a while now. Will cut to 1-2 cubes of frozen/day and see if they stay at a good weight

 

[Spare time]

Never starve the fish to deal with phosphate issues. It is cruel and unnecessary. I never like when people suggest this.


Regardless, have you verified the test kit with a reference solution or comparing it another test kit or two?


I'd stick with gfo if the phosphates are truly high. I don't like lanthanum.

 

[pixelhustler]

I like that you are focused on fish health. I have 6 green chromis and they get almost two frozen cubes per day. The fifteen large Mexican turbos get one sheet of dried seaweed every evening. The Ulva keeps NO3 below 10 ppm but PO4 is around 0.4 ppm. No stony coral so it doesn't matter. I had a green chromis runt with a damaged mouth that could only eat certain size food. I too overfed to ensure the runt ate. It worked for a couple years before it finally died.

Have you had much luck directly feeding the smaller fish other than the chumming method? For example, I had luck feeding aggressive eaters with a long acrylic rod. I was able to “stuff“ them with chunks of food with near zero waste. As for the shy eaters I would try pipetting food near them assuming the big eaters will leave it alone. Maybe you could stuff the big ones first to slow them down before pipette feeding the little ones.

Yes I’ve been making my own frozen for a while - I add garlic guard, spirulina, fish oil and a few types of fish and shrimp. It’s helped substantially with curbing disease. Part of me over feeding is wanting to ensure they have the nutrition to kick any illness quickly.
Spot feeding does sounds like a good idea, and it sounds fun as well!

 

[Spare time]

Yes I’ve been making my own frozen for a while - I add garlic guard, spirulina, fish oil and a few types of fish and shrimp. It’s helped substantially with curbing disease. Part of me over feeding is wanting to ensure they have the nutrition to kick any illness quickly.
Spot feeding does sounds like a good idea, and it sounds fun as well!

Spirulina definitely can jump those phosphates up. For a bit I would purposely add spirulina to my tank to raise the phosphates when they got too low lol

 

[Jekyl]

All of my Mandarin’s including my pair of red Moyer scooter blennies eat frozen food that I feed the rest of the tank including pellets So to say none will eat frozen or pellets is wrong

Only was the incorrect term. Naturally would have fit better.