“Balance! Daniel son“ phosphate vs nitrate

[Carl C]

If my nitrate is at 20 where ideally does phosphate read ?

thank you

 

[LeftyReefer]

anything above ZERO, ideally. but not too high....

beyond that, I'm not sure there is an ideal phosphate level based solely on the nitrate level.

Some people will suggest the Redfield Ratio as the answer, but I'm not sure how applicable that is to what is going on in our reef tanks, unless you have nothing but phytoplanktonic biomass in your tank.

 

[sixty_reefer]

If my nitrate is at 20 where ideally does phosphate read ?

thank you

As mentioned before anywhere above zero, although balance is wend both nitrates and phosphates are at a constant residual, anytime that they fluctuate the balance is lost

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If my nitrate is at 20 where ideally does phosphate read ?

thank you

Optimal phosphate levels are not tied to current nitrate levels, IMO.
I always recommend 0.02 to 0.1 ppm phosphate, and higher than that range is better than lower.

 

[KonradTO]

Optimal phosphate levels are not tied to current nitrate levels, IMO.
I always recommend 0.02 to 0.1 ppm nitrate, and higher than that range is better than lower.

It was a typo right? You meant phosphates

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It was a typo right? You meant phosphates

Oops, yes, fixed it. Thx!

 

[BanjoBandito]

Wouldn't the redfield ratio mean phosphate should be at 1.25 or am I thinking wrong or is the math wrong?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Wouldn't the redfield ratio mean phosphate should be at 1.25 or am I thinking wrong or is the math wrong?

Is nitrogen and nitrates the same thing? I don’t recall reading about nitrates on redfield original article

 

[redfishbluefish]

Wouldn't the redfield ratio mean phosphate should be at 1.25 or am I thinking wrong or is the math wrong?

The Redfield ratio was determined from a very specific algae. Other organisms can vary significantly from Redfield....I don't remember the specifics, but some other algae was 50:1. So think of Redfield as just putting you in the ballpark.

 

[sixty_reefer]

The Redfield ratio was determined from a very specific algae. Other organisms can vary significantly from Redfield....I don't remember the specifics, but some other algae was 50:1. So think of Redfield as just putting you in the ballpark.

The good thing about redfield is that is also the molar ratio of marine detritus and the closest available of NSW. It’s useful to identify how limitations can occur in reef aquaria at the nutrient level. it’s not a tool that I would use to set a residual phosphates or nitrates.

 

[BanjoBandito]

The good thing about redfield is that is also the molar ratio of marine detritus and the closest available of NSW. It’s useful to identify how limitations can occur in reef aquaria at the nutrient level. it’s not a tool that I would use to set a residual phosphates or nitrates.

So does the redfield ratio have any practicality in captive system?

 

[Dburr1014]

If my nitrate is at 20 where ideally does phosphate read ?

thank you

0.03-0.1 but definatly less than 0.2
I know a few people have higher values but this is what I suggest.

 

[sixty_reefer]

So does the redfield ratio have any practicality in captive system?

On the understanding of limitations, yes, I’ve wrote a few threads on it.

 

[Dburr1014]

So does the redfield ratio have any practicality in captive system?

I thought it did but have been schooled otherwise. You just want to keep po4 and no3 in a range rather than a fixed ‰

 

[ReefGeezer]

So does the redfield ratio have any practicality in captive system?

Let's not quibble. The practical answer is "no". The "CNP" ratio varies among organisms and even in its concentration in varying reef environments. NOTHING is limited unless there is a ZERO level of one of the constituents. In a well fed system some N & P is desirable, but the ratio is just not important.

 

[BanjoBandito]

Let's not quibble. The practical answer is "no". The "CNP" ratio varies among organisms and even in its concentration in varying reef environments. NOTHING is limited unless there is a ZERO level of one of the constituents. In a well fed system some N & P is desirable, but the ratio is just not important.

I'm not quibbling I'm just asking. It never made any sense to me but I've heard some reefers swear by the "divide by 16" rule.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Let's not quibble. The practical answer is "no". The "CNP" ratio varies among organisms and even in its concentration in varying reef environments. NOTHING is limited unless there is a ZERO level of one of the constituents. In a well fed system some N & P is desirable, but the ratio is just not important.

Any way to back this up with any data? Or it’s just your opinion?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Wouldn't the redfield ratio mean phosphate should be at 1.25 or am I thinking wrong or is the math wrong?

Are you asking whether the Redfield ratio has meaning here (it does not, IMO) or are you asking what the Redfield ratio would be for some sort of academic exercise?

Target ratios and the Redfield ratio are not the same, nor should folks set targets by ratio (IMO).

 

[ReefGeezer]

Any way to back this up with any data? Or it’s just your opinion?

Nope. I am a hobbyist not a biologist. I have performed no studies or written peer reviewed papers about the subject. I rely on the my understanding of the subject and my interpretation of the consensus on the subject and apply it to my tank.

To expound on my opinion on this subject... I know that C, N, and P are required for life. I know that C, N, and P exist in my tank in many forms. I know that I can't test for all the forms. It is my opinion that different organisms use different forms of C, N, and P. It is my opinion that in a properly operating system that C, N, and P in all of its forms is processed in interrelated loops determined in large part by the organisms present and not a set ratio.

 

[BanjoBandito]

Are you asking whether the Redfield ratio has meaning here (it does not, IMO) or are you asking what the Redfield ratio would be for some sort of academic exercise?

Target ratios and the Redfield ratio are not the same, nor should folks set targets by ratio (IMO).

I'm asking does the redfield ratio mean ANYTHING to us as hobbyists? Or is it just more noise. I don't do academic exercises, Randy. I barely do psychical exercise. You'd smoke me at reef tank jeopardy.