Anemone problems

[Patryk]

Hi, I recently (6 weeks ago) started my first reef tank. The tank was started with live sand, live rock, and Siporax that had already been in another well-established tank for a month.

About two weeks ago, I added two anemones (2 days apart). After 1.5 weeks, one of them started to decline and moved recently. After moving, it went completely under a rock. The smaller one was placed a bit higher in the tank, and I did increase the light by 5% some time ago.

Some photos before it moved:

And this is how it looked before:

The second bigger one recently started behaving differently and is trying to get rid of something through its mouth.

How it looked before:

Should I be concerned?

Params:
PO4 0
NO3 20
KH 7,3
MG 1250
CA 430
Temp 25 deg
Sal 1.0245

 

[Spare time]

What test kits are being used? Phosphate at 0.00ppm is an issue.

 

[Patryk]

I'm using Salifert. It's probably not 0, but something like 0.01 or 0.02, but on the test scale, the first value is 0.03, and I'm not matching that color. Or they might be 0.03; it's hard to tell with those lower-value colors.

 

[Patryk]

Any ideas?

 

[laverda]

Raise you alkalinity. They prefer between 8 and 9 DKH. They also require some phosphate to survive. Nitrate is a food source for them so 20 is fine.

 

[laverda]

Raise you alkalinity. They prefer between 8 and 9 DKH. They also require some phosphate to survive. Nitrate is a food source for them so 20 is fine.

 

[Patryk]

I'm raising kH, MG and CA 10 mils a day. I'm worried about low PO4 but no idea why its so low.

 

[Spare time]

Raise you alkalinity. They prefer between 8 and 9 DKH. They also require some phosphate to survive. Nitrate is a food source for them so 20 is fine.

Why would you say alk matters for an organism without a carbonate skeleton?

 

[laverda]

Why would you say alk matters for an organism without a carbonate skeleton?

Because they are 95% water. That is just like the air/co2 ratio we breathe. If one gets to far off we have a hard time breathing. What makes you think it does not matter?

I have sold enough anemonies to know they will not attach if alk is too low, say 6.5 DKH. Also once established they will often release if Alk gets too low. They like alk stable just like any other coral. They may care more about ph, but if alk is that low, PH is likely low too.
That is just like the air/co2 ratio we breathe. If one gets to far off we have a hard time breathing.

I have approximately 100 anemones currently. I have been keeping them for 30 plus years.

 

[Patryk]

Thanks will try that. So based on your experience they should survive?

 

[Patryk]

Thanks will try that. So based on your experience they should survive?

 

[Spare time]

Because they are 95% water. That is just like the air/co2 ratio we breathe. If one gets to far off we have a hard time breathing. What makes you think it does not matter?

I have sold enough anemonies to know they will not attach if alk is too low, say 6.5 DKH. Also once established they will often release if Alk gets too low. They like alk stable just like any other coral. They may care more about ph, but if alk is that low, PH is likely low too.
That is just like the air/co2 ratio we breathe. If one gets to far off we have a hard time breathing.

I have approximately 100 anemones currently. I have been keeping them for 30 plus years.

"Because they are 95% water" is irrelevant. They simply are not creatures that use carbonate. pH is a different question, but pH is impacted primarily by carbon dioxide in the air, not the alk level


"I have sold enough anemonies to know they will not attach if alk is too low, say 6.5 DKH. Also once established they will often release if Alk gets too low. They like alk stable just like any other coral. "

And how do you know those issues were alk related?


The oxygen to carbon dioxide metaphor doesn't work, because unlike carbonate and anemones, we need oxygen and they don't need carbonates (at least to any significant degree)



I have also kept and sold a number of bubbletip anemones.

 

[OrionN]

Chemistry is complex. Even if they don’t “use” carbonate, change in level in such a major component of the water will effect the chemistry/level of other chemical in the water. This will have major effects on all the animals.

 

[Spare time]

Chemistry is complex. Even if they don’t “use” carbonate, change in level in such a major component of the water will effect the chemistry/level of other chemical in the water. This will have major effects on all the animals.

No one is giving me evidence as to this being a case that low alk impacts anemones. With the same logic, every element in water should be treated equally as important.

 

[OrionN]

No one is giving me evidence as to this being a case that low alk impacts anemones. With the same logic, every element in water should be treated equally as important.

Nothing that any of us said should lead you to this conclusion. You sense of logic is off at best, or.... not there in this case. There are major and minor elements/compounds according to concentration. Some of the minor elements/compounds have no specific effects for most animals (like nickel), while other has huge, major effects (like copper). Bicarb on the other hand is a major compound with major effects. It is very high in concentration in sea water. In addition to this, we know that it is a major buffer in sea water. In case you don't know, a buffer is a chemical that keep the pH from changing fast. Steady, stable pH is hugely important because, for one thing, pH affect the shape, thus function of all the protein molecules. There are other affects of pH on living things, that we won't have time to go into detail here.

Anemones do especially poor with pH spikes.
All I can tell you is anemones, especially sensitive anemones like Magnifica and Gigantea require "good water chemistry". You cannot be more wrong when you are thinking that since anemones do not have carbonate skeleton, bicarb is not important.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi, I recently (6 weeks ago) started my first reef tank. The tank was started with live sand, live rock, and Siporax that had already been in another well-established tank for a month.

About two weeks ago, I added two anemones (2 days apart). After 1.5 weeks, one of them started to decline and moved recently. After moving, it went completely under a rock. The smaller one was placed a bit higher in the tank, and I did increase the light by 5% some time ago.

Some photos before it moved:

And this is how it looked before:

The second bigger one recently started behaving differently and is trying to get rid of something through its mouth.

How it looked before:

Should I be concerned?

Params:
PO4 0
NO3 20
KH 7,3
MG 1250
CA 430
Temp 25 deg
Sal 1.0245

I dont believe an alk issue but rather light too bright, high phosphate or lack of feeding. If feeding powdered plankton food, feed Mysis shrimp or pieces of chopped krill

 

[Backreefing]

Bumping up your alk to 8 -8.5 DKH is a good idea . For any coral . It’s a modest number. But the low phosphate is an issue. Some new aquariums have low phosphate for months . It gets adsorbed into the rock and gravel, until it’s full . I’m assuming you have fish in the aquarium.

 

[laverda]

"Because they are 95% water" is irrelevant. They simply are not creatures that use carbonate. pH is a different question, but pH is impacted primarily by carbon dioxide in the air, not the alk level


"I have sold enough anemonies to know they will not attach if alk is too low, say 6.5 DKH. Also once established they will often release if Alk gets too low. They like alk stable just like any other coral. "

And how do you know those issues were alk related?


The oxygen to carbon dioxide metaphor doesn't work, because unlike carbonate and anemones, we need oxygen and they don't need carbonates (at least to any significant degree)



I have also kept and sold a number of bubbletip anemones.

What do you base your conclusion on? Do you know this for a fact?

 

[AquaLogic]

Feed frozen food like mysis shrimp, don't rinse it. That will help raise phosphate.

 

[Mark Goode]

I think a six week old tank is a bit too new for them. They do seem to be happier in an established tank (IME anyway).