Angelfish sick

[Aronsaquarium]

Hi!
Can anyone identify the issue here?
My Emperors tail went cloudy, and now the cloudy parts seems to be deteriorating.
And my Bicolor has this white slime on the side and his skin looks underneath (that could hopefully be an illusion though)

they are both new fish, but I haven’t seen any other fish nipping at the emperor and yet his tail is disintegrating.

any help would be amazing!!

 

[MnFish1]

Its often difficult to decide between a bacterial infection - as compared to a 'damage'. vis a vis the emporer

As to the Bicolor - What do you think the 2 white spots are (are they on the glass or the fish)

In any case:

1. What are your parameters? How old is the tank, how old is 'new' for the fish? (did you get them at the same time - from the same place?)
2. Are the lesions continuing to get worse? How long was the transport time?
3. A cloudy fin followed by disintegration to me could be a couple things. 1) ammonia burn from transport (depending on how new, and how transported) - 2) a secondary bacterial infection (fin rot). 3. something else

Thinking about this a little - and for sure others will reply

 

[MnFish1]

Also - do you have the means/opportunity - to set up a hospital tank - if treatment is needed?

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Thank you so much for your reply!

so the 2 white dots are not on the fish, that was something in the water..

i got both fish 3 days ago exactly now.
The Bicolor hasn’t been eating. but I think the slime on its side has gotten a touch smaller today..

the Emperor started to eat today but only a little bit, so I’m feeding smaller meals throughout the day so he gets a couple pieces here and there.

parameters are where it gets in interesting.
When I put them in,
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20-30
Salinity 0.25
PH 7.8-8

the second day I added a couple new rocks and it caused hell!
I lost my Naso Tang and a Royal Gramma.
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate same
Ph 7.5
and cloudy tank.
i managed to turn it around quickly over the last 24 hours.
Now I’m at

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0-0.1
Nitrate 30
PH 7.8-8
Salinity 0.21 (I dropped it)

it’s a FOWLR tank, no hospital. So I’ll be treating the tank.

 

[Aronsaquarium]

And bicolor is largely staying in one place by his rock..
He’s getting some bullying from my Coral Beauty. But I haven’t seen him touching the Emperor at all which is why I don’t think it’s bullying..

could be Ammonia, which may have killed the Naso too.
It never went up high, but possible that the new rocks gave them an ammonia burn

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Sorry last thing, the Emperor also has some white slime stuff on his body but not as bad at that big one of the Bicolor

 

[Aronsaquarium]

it actually looks like the scales are open on the bicolor

 

[vetteguy53081]

I see some bacterial issues and more of a concern is :

Age of Tank?

Are these First Fish ?

How long has tank been cycled?

What test kits are you using ?

Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet ?

Bi-color seems to have post injury on its body.

 

[JumboShrimp]

‘Slimy’ fish can’t ever be good. Are you rushing into things? @vetteguy53081 asks some pertinent questions.

 

[Aronsaquarium]

Ok so,
Tank is 4 months old. So definitely on the newer side
It cycled in 3 weeks originally

I’ve got 2 Azure Damsels in there
A Foxface
Clarkii Clown
6 line wrasse
Sandsifter Goby
Red coris Wrass
Coral Beauty
And these 2 new fish.

fish were mostly introduced a couple weeks apart
Things were fine until these new fish.
I think they either came with something though they looked super clean.

more likely the rocks I added when I got them seems to be the issue..
They were either infected with something, or because I hosed them down they sucked up some of the chlorine in tap water..
I tried shaking off all the access water before adding to tank but not sure that’s good enough.

i Use RO water. Or sea saltwater from LFS

I’m using API test kits (drops with little falls containers and strips for quicker checks and references)

if the Bicolor is post injury and that’s how it works with the scales looking open a little? Then hopefully it’s starting to get better

the Emperor is eating more today which I’m super happy about, but his body doesn’t look great..
There are these patches around him
but It doesn’t feel slimy

 

[Aronsaquarium]

All other fish currently in there are happy

i have praziro and a little Cupramine in the tank

 

[Andresnyc93]

Not sure if anyones asked this but what’s the size of the tank? Sounds like a lot of angels together. Not ideal unless the tank is pretty big and they have ample room to avoid eachother

 

[Aronsaquarium]

So I thought similar..
I wanted the Coral Beauty and Juvenile Emperor. In my 75g. I know an adult Emperor needs a much larger space but that’s a couple years down the line from his age now..
The LFS said I’d need to add a 3rd for them now to fight..
And they felt the 2 dwarfs with the juvenile would be fine in a 75.. idk

I’ve got a decent amount of rockwork so they do have their own places..

 

[Aronsaquarium]

The juvenile and coral beauty are actually totally fine together it’s the bicolor that’s bullied by the coral beauty

 

[Andresnyc93]

Way too small for the amount of angelfish, your LFS sounds like they’re just trying to make a sale but they will never work in a 75G. I tried it years ago and it never worked. These are active fish and even if everyone has their own sleeping spaces when they go out in the open is more likely they’re getting aggressive with eachother. Territorial and semi aggressive fish will always contest eachother.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Prediction about the Emperor … he is going to grow before your eyes.

 

[Andresnyc93]

Seems like wounds that developed into a bacterial infection.

 

[Aronsaquarium]

I guess at this point I’ve gotta try get them back to health while I figure out the space issue..

if we’re talking bacterial infection, is that something that can get better on its own or do I have to urgently treat it

and what sort of treatment would you do without a QT?

 

[JumboShrimp]

(It’s good to see you willing to take advice and make adjustments— not everybody is. We are only trying to help. I think the overarching point might be, slow down just a bit / more patience with your stocking.)

Best wishes!

 

[vetteguy53081]

I guess at this point I’ve gotta try get them back to health while I figure out the space issue..

if we’re talking bacterial infection, is that something that can get better on its own or do I have to urgently treat it

and what sort of treatment would you do without a QT?

Any Treatment will have to be performed in a quarantine setting?
Biclor especially a challenging fish- often starve and get viral diseases. These fish do best in a very mature and stable tank. I mentioned earlier water quality.
API test kits are notorious for false reading and have let down many reefers hence the low price for a test kit. I suspect your readings are higher.
For quarantine, a starter tank kit will suffice.
If fish are eating, treatment will be seachem metroplex and Focus as a binder to the food. If not, seachem Kanaplex or Ruby Rally pro.
Also increase oxygen with an air pump and air stone.

Lastly, take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use API kits nd see what they come up with for Ammonia-ph-nitrate