Be wary of rumors

[Paul B]

With all the years it has been running I think it runs OK.

 

[Paul B]

I have theories on all sorts of things but they are just theories and I don't want to upset people or start arguments on just conjecture. I also disagree with so much information on these forums that I am posting less and less because there is so much IMO wrong information and so many people believe it that I would be in the vast minority in my beliefs. Don't forget I run a reverse UG filter and except for a spastic Sherpa in Tibet, no one else runs one so of course it can't work. There are rumors all over the place as to why they can't work. I try to stay far away from ich threads as my ideas are old school and came about by trial and error. I have used my methods dozens of times over many years in my tank and wholesalers tanks so I know they work. But new medications and ideas such as hypo came around so many of us forgot the things that are very simple and work in no time. Ich and almost all parasites can be cured in a day or two very simply and cheaply. Ich is a no brainer to me but OMG there is so much ink written about it. I also think way to much water is changed to try to correct something that has nothing to do with water changes. I also feel many of us don't realize the role bacteria play in our tanks and the fact that the bacteria is responsible for the health of our fish and the water. We are just here to give the bacteria something to make fun of. We also rarely mention the lateral line system in our fish but that system is the most important system the fish have. Fish can get around in complete darkness, even with one eye. Some fish don't even need eyes. The immune system of fish is the most important thing in this hobby. When we fail to learn about it fully, we don't know how to keep it in tune which is why there are so many disease threads. A fully functioning immune system will protect fish from just about everything and do it for free. When the immune system is functioning correctly the fish will also become pregnant and have the best colors it will ever have because that is the condition fish are always in in the sea. Keeping their immune system up to par is the most important thing we need to do and if we do, we will no longer have to quarantine, we will not need any medications or hospital tank and our fish will live out their life which will be their natural life span which for many fish is over 25 years. I believe in the future we will all know these things and fish diseases will be a thing of the past.
Unfortunately many of us don't yet grasp these ideas. But soon we all will.

 

[scardall]

I too prefer old school methods as well. I haven't had Ich in my Tanks for so so long I have forgotten how to cure it. I will likely do a freshwater dip as I have a few FW tanks as well. Would you toss me a bone here Paul B. Just in case???

 

[Paul B]

Fresh water dips will annoy some parasites a little and i would sometimes do them with a severe infection. But they won't cure anything.

 

[Diesel]

Now the skimmer part I can relate as I love my simple set and forget Lifereef skimmer. (nothing better IMO)
But......... but the seahorse thing............
I don't have seahorses so I wouldn't know but we got real horses and don't want to think about a UGF.

 

[Paul B]

I would rather no one run a UG filter because if they do it wrong, they will blame me and curse me with locusts. I prefer Supermodels but I rarely get cursed with those.

 

[ttabbal]

Fresh water dips will annoy some parasites a little and i would sometimes do them with a severe infection. But they won't cure anything.

So, what does help? In your opinion. I'm curious how you do things. I'm a noob, so I have no preconceptions about everything. I also like to get information. [emoji1]

 

[Paul B]

ttabbal the problem with fresh water dips is that any parasites on a fish are stuck somewhere in the fishes slime. The slime is thicker than the parasite so some parasites are closer to the fishes skin and completely covered with slime while other parasites may be just near the outside of the slime or in a place where the slime is thin. For freshwater to be effective, the parasite must be exposed to it and the slime will protect the parasite from the freshwater preventing it from being affected. Also the parasites that are killing your fish are not the ones on the skin as they are only a slight irritant as they can't get through the scales anyway. The ones in the gills are the ones we have to be concerned about because those are the ones hampering the fish from breathing as they cover the gills which are very delicate feathery structures. The parasites take up room which would be used by the gills to extract oxygen from the water. The best cure for parasites IMO is a combination of copper/formalin. If you have a diatom filter, I would use that along with the copper/formalin to eliminate the immature parasites from re-infecting the fish as they fall off. If you want to cure a fish of parasites in a day I would use the copper/formalin, diatom filter "and" quinicrine hydrochloride which you probably can't find. It is a prescription medication for malaria and malaria is not to common here. I sometimes get it from a friendly Veterinarian but the copper/formalin will work fine, just not in a reef tank.. fish in a reef tank should not get parasites in the first place because they should be immune. But that would take up to much ink here and many people will disagree with me which is the reason I wrote a book. I am waiting for a Supermodel to volunteer to be on the cover, so far, no takers.

 

[ttabbal]

Thanks for the info. I don't have ich in the tank, that I know of anyway. I just like to gather information on issues that can come up from successful tank owners.

How would one make a fish in a reef tank immune to parasites?

 

[eric3316]

Thanks for the info. I don't have ich in the tank, that I know of anyway. I just like to gather information on issues that can come up from successful tank owners.

How would one make a fish in a reef tank immune to parasites?

I think he is saying fish should build up immunities to parasites just like humans build up immunities to diseases. A healthy diet and low stress would be my guess for a fish to build up a good immune system. These parasites live in the ocean as well but you don't see all reef fish in the ocean covered in ick or infected with all these other diseases we have in our tanks. Probably just fish with low immune systems in the ocean that cannot fight it off like most of the healthy fish.

This might not be Paul's answer but I figured I would take a shot just thinking logically. It is not like fish can get vaccines so you have to look at what keeps a fish strong and healthy in the ocean.

 

[Paul B]

How would one make a fish in a reef tank immune to parasites?

That would take up a lot of ink here but I have written about it all over the place. I dedicated an entire chapter in my book about it. I don't like putting that on these forums much as lately I have been getting a lot of flack from it because many people don't agree with my theories but it has a lot to do with slime as I wrote here. http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/marine-fish-heal-through-slime-3962/ And this
http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/want-healthy-spawning-fish-feed-them-properly-5010/

 

[ttabbal]

Nutrition makes sense. I currently feed frozen foods. Reef frenzy is a favorite of the fish. I have read some of your posts about blackworms. Interesting, but I think I'd need a new wife if I put live worms in her fridge. Any shot frozen blackworms are a good choice? Freeze dried seems like it would remove too much stuff.

 

[Cleo642]

Lol, "undergravel filters cause global warming and locusts."
I almost laughed as hard at that one than the time I read someone call a fish a jerk.
Whale shark in nano, that's cool.

 

[RAD01]

Paul when is your book finally coming out?

 

[Paul B]

Ttabbal, I would also need a new wife if I put worms in the fridge so I never put them there. I made a worm keeper for that. Live worms are the best by far although I assume frozen are "almost" as good. I believe (and I also believe in bigfoot you you may not agree with me) that the live bacteria on and in the gut of the worms somehow contributes to the great health of the immune system in fish that are fed live worms. This is a new theory of mine and may have as much credence as bigfoot, but it is what I think.
Rado1, they tell me the book will come out near the end of the summer so I would imagine that is in a month or two. Believe me, I want it out more than you do as I want to read it before I become senile and disagree with everything I wrote.

Blackworms
http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/feeding-blackworms-healthy-marine-fish-whiteworms-3124/

 

[Paul B]

[QUOTE

This might not be Paul's answer but I figured I would take a shot just thinking logically. It is not like fish can get vaccines so you have to look at what keeps a fish strong and healthy in the ocean.[/QUOTE]

It is true that we don't "yet" have vaccines for fish but we have learned to use vaccines for ourselves. We are still in the dark ages when it comes to fish diseases with just as many problems with fish diseases now as we had in 1971 when the marine hobby started. Many people still believe quarantining is the "only" way to go. Quarantining is "one" way to go and it usually works very well and all new hobbyists should quarantine everything. But as we get more savvy we will learn how to get and keep the immune systems of our fish up to the point where they can take care of themselves. Most of us are not there yet so if you quarantine, "keep doing that".
Not long ago I had an epiphany. No, that is not an Italian desert, it is an idea. I was thinking about fish immunity and the problems many people have with disease when it hit me. No, I mean after my wife hit me. It came to me that 99.9% of the food most of us feed our tanks is sterile. Dry food is baked and frozen foods are, well, frozen. These foods don't have viable bacteria in or on them. This is a huge problem. A fishes immune system, just like ours depends on meeting bacteria, parasites and viruses so it's immune system can recognize the threat. If a fish has never come into contact with an organism, it has no natural defense against it. I am not sure how long this immunity lasts as I am not a fish immunologist and I don't play one on TV. But the live worms I feed my fish every day are loaded with bacteria on them and in their gut. I am relatively sure this one food is the main reason my fish seem to be immune from just about everything. Just a thought and in no way do I say this is true. It is an idea that is IMO worth thinking about.

 

[Paul B]

I am going to my boat now in a marina. The bottom of the marina, under the boats is loaded with life including bacteria. The floating wooden docks are also home to multitudes of amphipods, shrimp, anemones and who knows what else. I just scrap some of that gunk off and throw some in my tank. I do that a couple of times a year mainly for the bacteria. I can't tell if that is a good or a bad practice but if you run a sterile tank, I would not recommend doing that as your fish probably have no immunity to it.

 

[mcarroll]

A gentleman I used to sell to would always want an extra large bag, extra full of water from our retail system that had wild livestock added to it at least once a week. He wanted this water not for a long trip home, but to add to his tank (along with the livestock) when he got there....on pretty much the same basis as your pier scraping. He may have even considered this his alternative to a quarantining practice....inoculation, eh?

I have a quote on my links thread about how many viruses are in a mere teaspoon of seawater. (Even more than you'd guess if you'd guess a really big number!) And how the main cause of death for bacteria in seawater are viruses. I strongly suspect that none of our tanks replicate the systems that sustain healthy/functioning populations of these micro-organisms and others like them.

A periodic dose from the wild should be a good thing - even if just for a new supply of viruses!!

 

[mcarroll]

This seems to be up the alley you're swimming, tell me if you like it.

The topic in this old tweet of mine is soil (instead of seawater), so the quote is in that context, but the same message applies to any ecosystem.

 

[Paul B]

When I started my tank there were very limited books about salt tanks, but the one book there was suggested adding garden soil to the tank to start a cycle. I don't remember if I did that or not, but I could see the thought behind it and I assume if I didn't live near the sea, I may have tried this although I don't know if garden soil would have any organisms that would live in salt water.