Breaking the "Rules" - Non-standard and innovative practices...

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I simply stated what I've learned over many years. Since 1985 I've only done water changes when my power went out. I have a generator now so I should never have to again.

Your experience is a great one to build the case that you do not benefit from water changes.

Others see different results, and believe they benefit.

It is a wonderful discussion to have (and we do almost every month).

I was just quibbling with the term scam, which implies they are definitely not useful and folks suggesting them are out to mislead you ( that's what a scam is) Perhaps that is not what you meant, however.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The non standard things id like to hear grom real users the most are ozone users, denitrifier users, and people who connect tanks all over their homes with water bridges.

I don't know about the water bridges, but ozone and denitrators certainly have uses.

Ozone reduces yellowing of the water, making it look much clearer. I do not believe it does a lot more than that. While I no longer use it regularly over possible HLLE-like issues in tangs, I show the effect on my aqaurium here:

Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 3: Changes in a Reef Aquarium upon Initiating Ozone by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php

from it:

Figure 1. Two digital photographs of a plastic bar taken through four feet of aquarium water. The bar on the left was taken before using ozone, and the bar on the right was taken after two weeks on ozone. The numbers were written onto the bar with marking pens. All camera settings were identical.

 

[tonkaoz]

Sounds like a daredevil plan mostly because of the multiples...but starting with a 400 gallon tank, you're miles ahead of where most would start on that project! Schooling marine fish are no joke; success isn't guaranteed even in that large a tank.

Will see how things end up after a year of thinking about it - you've got lots of time to prepare! I hope it goes off without a hitch!!!

This isnt my first tank. I have a 220 now . And have had many more in the past . I had 3 blonde nasos in this one . And yes it is a little crazy but im hoping the small tangs and all being put in at once will help alot . Hop3fully i can prove the tang police wrong and the fish will be happy and healthy

 

[p.pep85]

Another sub thread off this one

Things from Home Depot you can put in your reef

Can someone build a reef using parts only from Home Depot aside from rocks and corals and fish

ill give it a try!

 

[Newb73]

Indeed. Chromis are supposed to kill each other off but what the heck, i threw 8 in a 235g. They sort of school...... Mostly they will school when i walk back and forth in front of the tank and they are hungry or when they sense there is danger. I am going to try a group of lyretails next but im not hoping for much.

Sounds like a daredevil plan mostly because of the multiples...but starting with a 400 gallon tank, you're miles ahead of where most would start on that project! Schooling marine fish are no joke; success isn't guaranteed even in that large a tank.

Will see how things end up after a year of thinking about it - you've got lots of time to prepare! I hope it goes off without a hitch!!!

 

[CodyRVA]

Don't ever let anyone catch you running a successful reef with no sump and a canister filter... their eyes will bleed and they will condemn you to reefing hell!

 

[runzwithscissors]

Without being able to get lights from elsewhere, no. I mean just bulbs, you can get the hardware there!

I know, I did this.

Edited to expand:

What do you need for a fish tank.

Well, the tank. (Okay, I bought that used elsewhere)
Stand: home depot carries wood!
Top: Home depot-carries wood!
Lights: Home depot carries everything you need to set up a metal halide. It takes a bit of digging, and possibly ordering some parts, totally do-able. (I 'cheated' and bought used, but same concept-it was put together using home depot stuff, dirt cheap)
overflow: yup! And plumbing!
Sump: yup! If you don't mind going plastic.
Strip power, use timers-all can be bought there.
Wait, need to buy the heater elsewhere... and pumps.. bet they have things you CAN use though

Actually you can plumb a heater using pecs from your hot water tank to the sump and they sell pond pumps at Home Depot [emoji41]

 

[Justiful]

I have no problems with unconventional use of equipment, like @Paul B 's use of reverse flow undergravel filters....OR for unconventional use of "chemicals," such as Driveway Melt for Calcium Chloride (two part), or Bayer Insecticide for a coral dip. But where I draw the line are those folks who put a big fish in a small pond, and say the fish is happy....such as a Hippo in a 30 gallon tank. That to me in unacceptable.

I have a juvenile tang in my 46 gallon... It is bigger than the 29 gallon he was in at the pet store for 2 months. No one wanted him because of his Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE) I said forget that I want him. They kept him in a 29g biocube display model with some other juvenile fish. Tank was overstocked for appearance sake.
Been feeding him Julian purple, and frozen brine and mysis soaked in garlic and selcon. He is active and eating now. He may not have the best shot with me, but it is better than a PETCO tank.

I plan to give him away when he is bigger though. I don't want an adult tang in my tank.

 

[mcarroll]

Don't ever let anyone catch you running a successful reef with no sump and a canister filter... their eyes will bleed and they will condemn you to reefing hell!

[emoji1]

It's true that not too many people can see the advantages of having no sump. Tunze even has some excellent gear specialized for that scenario. (Reefpack's and related components.)

The problem with the canister is different.

Typically it is a leftover from the freshwater system that gets converted to salt.

It often gets set up and maintained the same way it was on the freshwater system. And they do turn into nitrate factories when run like that. Many of them are too complicated to maintain for it to be reasonable to get in them and clean them out on a weekly basis, as that is what's required in salt water. It can be very worthwhile to swap the canister for a different filter in these cases.

But if you can clean your canister on a weekly basis, there's nothing really wrong with using it typically.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Don't ever let anyone catch you running a successful reef with no sump and a canister filter... their eyes will bleed and they will condemn you to reefing hell!

You can sit next to me. I got good seats there because of my aquaclear and hob refugium.
And I got the seats upgraded because of the mandarin.

 

[CodyRVA]

[emoji1]

It's true that not too many people can see the advantages of having no sump. Tunze even has some excellent gear specialized for that scenario. (Reefpack's and related components.)

The problem with the canister is different.

Typically it is a leftover from the freshwater system that gets converted to salt.

It often gets set up and maintained the same way it was on the freshwater system. And they do turn into nitrate factories when run like that. Many of them are too complicated to maintain for it to be reasonable to get in them and clean them out on a weekly basis, as that is what's required in salt water. It can be very worthwhile to swap the canister for a different filter in these cases.

But if you can clean your canister on a weekly basis, there's nothing really wrong with using it typically.

I think the biggest misconception with canisters is how to use them. You have to make them efficient. I clean mine twice a month and i keep all types of coral. I do also run pellets and GFO.

 

[Naiad]

I wonder if the tang police are gonna flip out when i tell my next plan . So i just bought a 400 gallon tank and plan on putting in at least 3 powder blues 3 purple tangs and 3 blonde naso's . The tank is 8" long and 3" wide . I just like schooling fish and plan on getting small ones and putting them all in at the same time . Hopefully i will have no problems . Probably 6 month to a year away still

Just be sure you are aware of the difference in behaviors between schooling and shoaling fish. There are almost no true schooling fish available in this hobby. Most are either shoaling or only school as juveniles.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I think the biggest misconception with canisters is how to use them. You have to make them efficient. I clean mine twice a month and i keep all types of coral. I do also run pellets and GFO.

Most people automatically assume you are Or are going to do it wrong or poorly...
Even funnier, the compliments on what you achieved stop when they find out how you did it....

 

[CodyRVA]

Most people automatically assume you are Or are going to do it wrong or poorly...
Even funnier, the compliments on what you achieved stop when they find out how you did it....

From my experience saying "canister" translates to... "i have no idea what i'm doing." And bingo... "oh those are nice SPS frags you have there, what size sump do you have!?" It's a canister bro.... "crickets"

 

[Newb73]

They work as media reactors for carbon and sometimes gfo. Dont run the sponge and clean often.

Absolutely more work to clean than a media reactor (10 min versus 20+) but easier to set up.

I think Randy runs one as a reactor.

More exoensive to maintain because the motor is integrated, you cant see whats goin on inside and they can be a pita to prime. More expensive upfront also.

I have two in storage for emergency GAC duty.

I think the biggest misconception with canisters is how to use them. You have to make them efficient. I clean mine twice a month and i keep all types of coral. I do also run pellets and GFO.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Without being able to get lights from elsewhere, no. I mean just bulbs, you can get the hardware there!

I inherited a friends 5g nano. 2 years old. DSB w oolite. Grands palys (from one to now 5) branching GSP by the foot 6 different polys several dozen zoas purple photosynthetic sponge going crazy, kind of a long list really.
No filter. limited water change. Distilled water or bottled drinking water for top off. 1 koralia nano.
1 Phillips Par 38.
About 24in above the tank.
no bs.

 

[CodyRVA]

They work as media reactors for carbon and someyimes gfo. Dont run the sponge and clean often.

Absolutely more work to clean than a media reactor (10 min versus 20+) but easier to set up.

I think Randy runs one as a reactor.

I run 3 types of filter pads in my bottom tray (course then fine and then 2 pieces of high micron felt). The rest of the trays are sintered glass filter media and thats it. I run a BRS mini reactor with a mix of GFO and carbon, Reef Octopus HOB protein skimmer, and a Reef Octopus Pellet reactor. They are a pain to clean, i mean... its a canister, but i do it twice a month, i can live with that. I use a Hydor 350 Canister.

 

[ou12004]

Water changes are also a scam. I started salt water in 1985 and no now **** so I went free style . I have no problems with most corals. Sure some won't work but 90 present will.

I see the biggest feeding response from all of my corals right after a water change, while not a scientific study there is an observable reaction. After 30 years reefing you have a much greater understanding of what the corals are reacting to, but for newbies this is one of the safest ways to export waste while adding a broad spectrum of elements to the tank.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

but for newbies this is one of the safest ways to export waste while adding a broad spectrum of elements to the tank

We forget to speak to the "everyman"
And sometimes out of the box is just the simple.
Simple is often confused with not effective.

 

[tonkaoz]

Just be sure you are aware of the difference in behaviors between schooling and shoaling fish. There are almost no true schooling fish available in this hobby. Most are either shoaling or only school as juveniles.

ill look into that thanks