Brightwell Razor Experience

[Kongar]

I figured I'd give brightwell razor a try in the battle against bubble algae and report back. There's not a lot of threads discussing it's results.

20G nano mixed reef. Everything in it was fat and happy to start. I dosed razor exactly per the instructions. After 5 days, I was thinking "this product isn't doing a single thing" - no noticeable differences whatsoever. Then, within a day, things changed very quickly. The bubble algae started to get it's death sheen - you know that greying out of the green bubble that signals a death soon. Unfortunately, I also noticed some coral affects at the same time. The hardest hit were some of my LPS (acans, blasto, frogspawn, and elegance coral). Additionally, all three of my montipora setosa showed bleaching at the tips, and general poor health / fading of the entire skeleton. (which is weird because those have been pretty hardy). All other corals have polyp retraction and haven't opened back up.

I did a 50% water change two days after the final treatment. My corals have not improved. I'll do another 50% water change this upcoming weekend. I have one acro that has been growing, but wasn't super happy. Razor was rough on the tank, I'm concerned I'll lose that acro and maybe one of the setosas. I noticed a new bubble last night, and it didn't outright kill the existing bubble alage (severely weakened it though). Just a data point, but all in all, I found it rougher on my tank than both vibrant and/or reef flux. Both of which did in my opinion a better job with pest algae.

Not trying to bash, just sharing results because there weren't a lot of posts with results. It did as advertised, and I believe eventually it would have done in the bubble algae. But, it was pretty rough on my corals - probably the roughest additive I've ever added. I'm not willing to continue with maintenance doses.

For what it's worth...

 

[CoralB]

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[bnord]

Sorry Bro - Thanks for the heads up - “anecdotal” data.

I thought a year or so I read a similar observation, but for certain i have not read the 5 to 10 unblemished endorsements that would get me to try it.

Hope Hope Hope that your water changes do the trick and that the tank stabilizes - regardless of the cause.

PI BRS has no consumer recommendations listed

 

[Kongar]

I figured I’d update my single data point for those looking for a thread that discusses results. It’s been about a month and a half since the first dose. I’ve completely lost an acro, monti setosa, a chalice, and a favia. Another chalice likely won’t make it (showing a lot of skeleton). Two other acros and my monti cap developed dead circular spots of tissue recession. About the same size as the cross section of a pen. Multiple spots per frag. I have only this week seen any real polyp extension on the sps - and it’s not much to write home about. The lps (elegance, torch, hammer, frog) have all mostly returned to normal. They are still a little retracted - but only I’d notice it.

Thats the bad. On the positive side, it seems to have done it’s job on the algae. As mentioned earlier, one little patch of bubble algae started growing fast. I manually removed it (while siphoning), and nothing has returned since. If you look at my build thread, you’ll see how overgrown my tank was with ulva, bubble, and bryopsis. The rocks now are 100% clean except for coraline.

So I guess the verdict is that it works as advertised-possibly even better than vibrant/algaefix. But it’s pretty rough on the tank, and it appears to stick around for a long time (remember I can do very heavy water changes and it’s still in the tank irritating things). If you aren’t running a nano, cuc and utility fish with nutrient control are the way to go. If you are running a nano /shrug. Let me know if and when you find an answer…

 

[Nathaniellund17]

It appears this thread is somewhat old, but wanted to post on it as it's pertinent to what I just went through. For the past few months, I've been fighting some turf algae in my 180 gallon tank that I just couldn't get rid of. I tried adding more clean up crew and a few other supplements and nothing seemed to do the trick. All of my parameters seemed to do be in line - mainly checking phosphate and nitrate. Phosphate was at .05 (Hanna checker) and nitrate was undetectable (API test).

It was recommended to use Brightwell Razor along with Clean, and I decided to give it a go.

It appears to have done the trick. I replaced my filter socks daily, which I think was key as they collected all the debri left from the dying algae. Instructions stated to turn off skimmer and UV light for the Clean application for the first few hours - I assume to let the bacteria settle on an appropriate surface. I kept them off for the Razor dosing as well in the afternoon, then turned them all on in the evening and let them run through the night until the morning for the next Clean dosing.

I did not see any stress on any of my corals - though my corals I don't think are that large - the tank is about 1 and half years old now. Phosphates got up to .06 - which I didn't think was too bad.

Here are a few picks of the display on Day 1 of treatment, up to Day 7. From what I can tell, I'm pretty happy with the results.

 

[Kongar]

Yup, it does do a number on algae. It's been roughly three months for me since I used it, and I have zero algae in the tank. It definitely does what it says. In my case, it hit my corals hard and I lost some. However, I did NOT lose that second chalice, it pulled through. One acro is still iffy, the rest have recovered and are doing well. I'm glad you had no issues. I'd suggest others post their results as well. Two data points don't make a trend, and there's not a lot of results threads for this product.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have to say I’m a little concerned about the nature of this product. A polymer that kills algae does not sound completely like a “cleaner” or flocculant to me. It sounds like an algaecide that may coincidentally bind organics.

That said, I have no evidence what it is, and I could not find any info from Brightwell on identity. If anyone does have such info, I’d love to see it.

 

[Nathaniellund17]

Hi Randy Holmes-Farley,
Looking to learn more. Why are you concerned about the nature of the product? Admittedly I don't know much about polymer's, flocculant, or algaecides. From what I could tell from most posts, algaecides are frowned upon for reef aquariums.
With the problem I've had for the last few months, I tried to keep it as natural as possible, adding clean up crew, performing water changes, and just ensuring water parameters were in line. When that failed, I turned to the additives, and short term it appears to have worked. Not sure if this could pose long term problems. Would welcome your thoughts.

 

[jhuntstl]

I have used it once before with no issues. Definitely knocked back some algae, but ultimately used Fluconazole on the main bryopsis issue that I had.

It states on the bottle that it is not an algaecide.

 

[amutti]

I'm still dealing with some GHA issues in my 120g. I tried lowering phosphates and nitrates to near zero and adjusting photoperiod and color. All my Zoas decided to close up. I started dosing a little phosphate, and things turned around with the corals, but the GHA also rebounded a bit. Fluconazole helped a little, but only a little. I did not get the dramatic results I've seen in other tanks. After two doses (with a 30% water change in between), the corals, specifically the LPS and SPS, showed signs of stress, and I wasn't seeing much result. I know Fluconazole isn't effective on all types of GHA.

After a few weeks and some rebound with the corals, I started dosing Marine Razor slightly less than the instructions suggested. My LPS don't like it. Hammers, Elegance and Acans are retracted for hours after a dose. I've probably lost a Gonastrea and a smaller Hydnophora frag ... That said, it seems to work. It made a solid dent in the GHA. I've been maintenance dosing 10-12ml every 3rd day with a tiny water change (5g) in between to vacuum off the substrate and rock. I'm also changing out the filter sock daily. Most things seem to be surviving the treatment. There is still too much GHA. I'm going to add MicroBater Clean and 7 to the mix - this could get ugly. I plan to test phosphates (Hana) and nitrates (Salifert) daily and dose as necessary to keep in the 0.04-0.08 and 8-15ppm ranges respectably.

Fingers crossed I can get the GHA down to a maintainable level.

FWIW, the Razor looks suspiciously like the flocculant I add to my swimming pool each spring when opening it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It states on the bottle that it is not an algaecide.

Yes, it does. That does not alleviate my concern that it may be one, whether Brightwell knows how it works or not.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi Randy Holmes-Farley,
Looking to learn more. Why are you concerned about the nature of the product? Admittedly I don't know much about polymer's, flocculant, or algaecides. From what I could tell from most posts, algaecides are frowned upon for reef aquariums.
With the problem I've had for the last few months, I tried to keep it as natural as possible, adding clean up crew, performing water changes, and just ensuring water parameters were in line. When that failed, I turned to the additives, and short term it appears to have worked. Not sure if this could pose long term problems. Would welcome your thoughts.

Vibrant stands out as the poster child for why I’m concerned, but many vendors, including Brightwell, do not understand all of their own products, and how and why they work.

In this case, some of the user experiences, such as those above, do not sound to me like the result of a flocculant alone.

Again, I’m just stating my personal concern, not that there is any evidence one way or the other.

 

[Dhaleillama]

I actually got a bottle for my wifes 15g to fight her hair algae. I did the calculations so I could follow the instructions for the first week of dosing, which was about .5 ml, then .75, then 1.5 ect.. and the tank is a softy tank, tons of zoas, gsp, acans, mushrooms, a cyphastrea whaever, but no issues here and the algae is slowly dying, super easy to pluck off of the rocks now and still doing my weekly water changes, almost daily filter floss change now though lol. But no bad experience here.

 

[Dhaleillama]

I'm still dealing with some GHA issues in my 120g. I tried lowering phosphates and nitrates to near zero and adjusting photoperiod and color. All my Zoas decided to close up. I started dosing a little phosphate, and things turned around with the corals, but the GHA also rebounded a bit. Fluconazole helped a little, but only a little. I did not get the dramatic results I've seen in other tanks. After two doses (with a 30% water change in between), the corals, specifically the LPS and SPS, showed signs of stress, and I wasn't seeing much result. I know Fluconazole isn't effective on all types of GHA.

After a few weeks and some rebound with the corals, I started dosing Marine Razor slightly less than the instructions suggested. My LPS don't like it. Hammers, Elegance and Acans are retracted for hours after a dose. I've probably lost a Gonastrea and a smaller Hydnophora frag ... That said, it seems to work. It made a solid dent in the GHA. I've been maintenance dosing 10-12ml every 3rd day with a tiny water change (5g) in between to vacuum off the substrate and rock. I'm also changing out the filter sock daily. Most things seem to be surviving the treatment. There is still too much GHA. I'm going to add MicroBater Clean and 7 to the mix - this could get ugly. I plan to test phosphates (Hana) and nitrates (Salifert) daily and dose as necessary to keep in the 0.04-0.08 and 8-15ppm ranges respectably.

Fingers crossed I can get the GHA down to a maintainable level.

FWIW, the Razor looks suspiciously like the flocculant I add to my swimming pool each spring when opening it.

Don't forget to manually remove all the GHA you can by hand daily, and in extreme cases a water change if its excessive when you tear it all off. A couple fish like a fox face and bristle tooth tang will also help keep that stuff at bay if you don't spoil them and over feed them ( yes, I did that haha )

 

[jhuntstl]

Yes, it does. That does not alleviate my concern that it may be one, whether Brightwell knows how it works or not.

Fair enough considering the vibrant results. Would be quite a bit more bold to make the claim on the bottle though.

 

[Kongar]

Vibrant stands out as the poster child for why I’m concerned, but many vendors, including Brightwell, do not understand all of their own products, and how and why they work.

In this case, some of the user experiences, such as those above, do not sound to me like the result of a flocculant alone.

Again, I’m just stating my personal concern, not that there is any evidence one way or the other.

I agree. I can't for the life of me figure out how a flocculant alone kills algae. For those of you with swimming pools - when you throw a clarifier/flocculant into the pool - does it kill the green algae? No. It binds it up so your filter can actually remove it. When you backwash that filter - it comes out green - the algae is still alive, it's just bound up and filtered out. When you throw in an algecide or a heavy dose of chlorine - and then backwash the filter, it comes out white and cloudy (dead algae). Are there flocculants that you throw into any other body of water to kill algae? I've not seen a product like that. So why should a reef tank be any different?

Whatever the mechanism, something in this product does indeed kill algae. It didn't bind up the bubble algae in my tank so I could filter it out It straight up killed it right in the display tank, although it didn't appear to do anything for quite a while. I threw it in the beginning of May, and it's now Sept 2nd. Tank has ZERO algae, like absolutely zero. No bryopsis, no ulva, no bubble, and no hair, not even a single little strand hiding in a hard to reach spot. All that grows now is that green film algae on the tank glass and rocks. Absolutely nothing else has changed - equipment, parameters, maintenance, no new fish or corals, etc. in my tank. I have had no further losses, and my corals are growing like weeds. (I'm up to 8+ heads on my torches and hammers). However, that one acro STILL hasn't recovered. I never see polyps, and it just... sits there not growing. It may have even receeded a little bit. All my other acros have browned out and haven't colored back up. Three of them are growing very fast though.

I've been at this now for about 2.5 years. I've certainly made my mistakes along the way, and had my battles with pests. If I were to start a new tank - I'd do things very differently. Number one on my list of changes, I'd be much more aggressive with manual removal of algae (as much of a pita that is), and I'd rely MUCH less on (if at all) on any products that I've used. I guess that's part of the journey - you read what people like Randy say, but it doesn't register until years later and much more experience is gained.

 

[Kongar]

And in the spirit of "don't listen to people unless you can see their tank" Pre and post Razor usage. Pre = OMG (it actually got worse than these pictures - I didn't take pictures at it's worst because I was sad). Post = wow, no algae and it's been months. Notice the explosion of limpet snails in my tank - there thousands of them in a 20G. Lots of green film algae and lots of itty bitty snails eating it.

Tank was just waking up this morning so all the corals are retracted. I assure you they are happy and fat - except for that one blue acro top left.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Fair enough considering the vibrant results. Would be quite a bit more bold to make the claim on the bottle though.

As vibrant does?

Kent claims other product attributes that obviously aren’t true (like hydroxide in Boost pH+ not boosting alkalinity), but in this case they might not even know it if it was an algaecide that also happened to be a flocculant.

 

[jhuntstl]

As vibrant does?

Kent claims other product attributes that obviously aren’t true (like hydroxide in Boost pH+ not boosting alkalinity), but in this case they might not even know it if it was an algaecide that also happened to be a flocculant.

I mean to state clearly it's not an algaecide rather than omitting the ingredient all together. If it's determined to be an algaecide, that would be incredibly deceptive. But I suppose they're already doing it with their Boost pH+ product, so I see your point.

 

[amutti]

Don't forget to manually remove all the GHA you can by hand daily, and in extreme cases a water change if its excessive when you tear it all off. A couple fish like a fox face and bristle tooth tang will also help keep that stuff at bay if you don't spoil them and over feed them ( yes, I did that haha )

Thanks. My 10 yr old powder blue tang does not appreciate tangs or fox faces. I've had to bring a few back to the LFS after being tormented and have chosen to stick with the PB even though he's a terrible algae eater (unless it comes in sheets).