Bulk soda ash discontinued?

[Ibn]

So @Ryanbrs can you tell us what the difference in clarity between the old stuff and the new stuff as in the questions I posted above (see post #51)? I just want to know what the difference is and whether I should continue to source out the old stuff or go w/the new Pharma stuff. I just want to compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges (pharma grade vs. the old food grade and not organic vs. inorganic).

In regards to cost, I don't mind the price difference, but want to know the difference before I make the conscientious decision to do so. I already feed my fish the best that is readily available (my daily smorgasbord of frozen food includes pe mysis, lrs nano, lrs eggs, nutrimar ova, etc.). It's like tossing a steak into the tank on a daily basis.

 

[Ryanbrs]

@Ryanbrs thanks for replying. I'm sure you would agree that hobbyists have used even lesser quality/grade soda ash to maintain their tanks for years, even decades, correct?? That being the case and if what this basically comes down to is personal choice then why wouldn't BRS offer us the choice between what was working and the newer additives?? Sure everyone would buy organic if they could afford to, so most grocery stores offer organic produce, also. What they don't do is fire sale the normal stuff and only sell organic. If it's because there is no profit in selling the older stuff then, hey, nuff said. You guys aren't a charity and I think most would understand that, but if this really just comes down to "I want to put better quality stuff in my tank so I'll spend a bit more" then why not offer both options so that people who are loyal customers and want to keep their business with you have an option???

That's certainly an option that was originally discussed and certainly possible. However, that goes against the DNA of the company. We intentionally have limited options in many categories. While our competitors have 30 brands of protein skimmers we stock the lines we believe in. I understand that we lose a ton of sales because someone wants to buy a certain skimmer we don't stock but we are ok with that if it means we can hold a standard that we only sell what we believe in. In this case, after using the line and understanding the value there wasn't a single person in the building from the warehouse, CS, or leadership who said they would not buy the higher grade material because the material is not just independently graded as such but also visably better to the naked eye, mixes much easier and the price difference is so minimal.

I think it is important to note that even though we buy hundreds of thousands of pounds a year, more than ever, we have absorbed price increases over the last few years as the global economy has improved and for many of the chems it was just time for a price increase. This is part of the reason the 5 gallon buckets became unfeasible. It's been public knowledge that we used pharmaceutical grade material on half the chems for a long time so even if selling some of the previous chems cheaper was an option some of the historic chemicals like the calcium and magnesium chloride would likely have to stay the same which just adds a ton of unnecessary complexity.

I appreciate the passion and how much everyone loved the old line. I can only ask that people are questioning the value of the move give us a bit of trust and the new products a shot. Then see what they think.

 

[BigJohnny]

Just saw this today, and I am actually pleased with this change. I use Kalk and 2 part in my 187g system. I am also in the group that is trying to move away from doing regular large water changes. Anything I can do to reduce the amount of accumulated impurities in my system is a plus. If I had a smaller system or was going to do more regular water changes, I could see this as being a negative.

Agreed. I don't do water changes and use brs kalk and 2 part. Very pleased. I actually think the bag is an awesome upgrade as well. Nothing worse than opening up an old supp or salt and finding clumps. I also am very excited for the less talcy/poofy kalk because I've accidentally breathed some in before and that was not pleasant.

 

[amnesiac]

Again, @Ryanbrs thanks for the reply. I wish that I could agree with or understand this decision, but I don't. How could also selling a product (old soda ash) that you had been previously selling for years go against your ideals/DNA? Especially, when there are plenty of products on BRS who's value is of a rather dubious nature (garlic products for instance). There are plenty of products that you guys currently offer who's value definitely fall well below that of the previously sold versions of calcium and alk. You guys also offer differing grades of carbon as well as GFO all at different price points. For me the change over to the new stuff would be like if I came to BRS to pick up carbon only to find that ROX was the only one available because it's the best for my tank. The problem I have with it is that the choice isn't there anymore and it's either this or buy somewhere else. I understand I'm probably in "dead horse" territory here so I'll finish up by saying: No disrespect/flame, Ryan. I love the store and get better than 90% of my hobby stuff from you guys. In the end these decisions are yours to make. I was just trying to understand it. -A

 

[Ryanbrs]

Again, @Ryanbrs thanks for the reply. I wish that I could agree with or understand this decision, but I don't. How could also selling a product (old soda ash) that you had been previously selling for years go against your ideals/DNA? Especially, when there are plenty of products on BRS who's value is of a rather dubious nature (garlic products for instance). There are plenty of products that you guys currently offer who's value definitely fall well below that of the previously sold versions of calcium and alk. You guys also offer differing grades of carbon as well as GFO all at different price points. For me the change over to the new stuff would be like if I came to BRS to pick up carbon only to find that ROX was the only one available because it's the best for my tank. The problem I have with it is that the choice isn't there anymore and it's either this or buy somewhere else. I understand I'm probably in "dead horse" territory here so I'll finish up by saying: No disrespect/flame, Ryan. I love the store and get better than 90% of my hobby stuff from you guys. In the end these decisions are yours to make. I was just trying to understand it. -A

I don't have a lot new to add here and my wife is telling to come enjoy the day so I will keep it brief

The DNA component addresses the only the fact that there isn't a single person on our team who has touched and used the products that would opt to try and save a few bucks and use the old product. This spans a few dozen reefers from all kinds of backgrounds, economic situations and ways they choose to reef. It was unanimous. This is because it mixes visually clearer, (doesn't clump the same in the punch grip or during mixing), kalk isn't as messy and in some ways safer because it doesn't poof the same way. Magnesium sulfate now dissolves a ton easier and doesn't turn to mush when mixed with the mag chloride and considering you use less is actually cheaper. On top of that, it is independently verified to meet some of the strictest quality standards out there. Now none of that may matter but if any of it does I think the price is very fair and ultra-competitive in the marketplace for what you get.

So all I can do is thank everyone for sharing how much they loved the old line and hope those experiences earned enough trust to try the new line and judge it on its own merits. Just for reference, I shared this earlier but it is the soda ash, magnesium sulfate and kalkwasser that changed, the rest of the chems have lived to this standard for a long time. The pricing is the net result of proper packaging to protect the contents better, quality increases and many years of raw material price increases. I will never ask anyone to say they like price increases but I would hope it can be understandable.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend, Ryan

 

[dragon99]

@Ryanbrs

Any chance you will start carrying sodium hydroxide for the new 2-part recipes?
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/second-new-diy-two-part-recipe-with-higher-ph-boost.357080/

 

[Scorpius]

*sigh* Those new pouches are gonna be a pain to seal. They never work on my cheese slices I buy from the grocery store. Why not keep the nice containers with easy to turn lids? lol

 

[dougers31]

*sigh* Those new pouches are gonna be a pain to seal. They never work on my cheese slices I buy from the grocery store. Why not keep the nice containers with easy to turn lids? lol

Yeah, I'm curious how well the kalk bags will close/seal as that powder seems to get into everywhere...

 

[cmcoker]

Yeah, I'm curious how well the kalk bags will close/seal as that powder seems to get into everywhere...

I used to dump Mrs Wages kalk out of the bag into an old BRS grip container because it was impossible to close the zip bag... maybe since it's less "poofy" it'll be ok..

 

[Tklb]

@Ryanbrs can you please make sure that they keep the Old Stuff in the Calculators? Thanks.

 

[dimo]

I used to dump Mrs Wages kalk out of the bag into an old BRS grip container because it was impossible to close the zip bag... maybe since it's less "poofy" it'll be ok..

I do the exact same thing. Mrs wages makes a dust storm if I’m not careful. Pretty much impossible to use straight from bag without making a mess.

With that said I do have the new brs Kalk in my hands. Looking forward to trying it.

 

[Neo Jeo]

I'm not happy about the price increase. I might go a different way now then dosing......

 

[nero0762]

If I'm doing the math right, this is just over a 50% increase in cost. The old soda ash was $20 for the gallon of powder that made 8 gallons of solution, so, $2.50/gallon of solution. The closest size in the new product is the 7 lb bag that makes 6 gallons for $23, 0r $3.83/gallon of solution. Yeah, its just a couple of bucks a week, but 50+% when the sales pitch is "its even more pure than the stuff we swore by for years" seems odd.
Like everyone else here, I'm a fan of BRS. They took great care of me when I got some bad hardware. I think that's why this change is getting such a reaction.
Any feedback from anyone (outside the BRS staff) who has tried the new stuff?

 

[swebb]

If I'm doing the math right, this is just over a 50% increase in cost. The old soda ash was $20 for the gallon of powder that made 8 gallons of solution, so, $2.50/gallon of solution. The closest size in the new product is the 7 lb bag that makes 6 gallons for $23, 0r $3.83/gallon of solution. Yeah, its just a couple of bucks a week, but 50+% when the sales pitch is "its even more pure than the stuff we swore by for years" seems odd.
Like everyone else here, I'm a fan of BRS. They took great care of me when I got some bad hardware. I think that's why this change is getting such a reaction.
Any feedback from anyone (outside the BRS staff) who has tried the new stuff?

From what I understand just from reading this thread, all of the 50% increase is not coming directly from the increasing the quality of chemicals, but instead this was a long time coming and for the last few years the inflation of prices, that happens to pretty much everything, has slowly been cutting into the profits of this product. I am guessing that because it was finally time to increase the price of the old product, and BRS decided to use this opportunity to switch to a different supplier of chemicals and storage for the chemicals that the guys at BRS liked better for quality and performance even if it is just a little.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

@Ryanbrs can you please make sure that they keep the Old Stuff in the Calculators? Thanks.

For what it's worth, the old additives appear to have the exact same concentration as the new ones (according to the calculator at least). Give it a try next time you're calculating something. Calculate your dosage using the discontinued product line, then switch the product to the new pharma pouch and plug in the numbers again. You'll get the same result.

 

[Neo Jeo]

What other alternatives can I do vs. using the BRS package? I’m thinking of selling my doser i just got.

 

[Potatohead]

While our competitors have 30 brands of protein skimmers we stock the lines we believe in.

I don't mean to go off topic but I think it's cool you brought on Eshopps skimmers. I have used them for a few years, I've had a fourth gen S-120 since it came out (so about 14 months) and it is a great product. They get zero talk on this forum so maybe with you guys backing them they will gain some traction. Any upcoming product videos planned?

 

[Brien]

In this hobby I don't like change if what I'm doing is working. Keep it simple and stable is my motto.

I can appreciate BRS's desire to carry a higher quality product but does that mean the current product has to go away too? I also found your changes to the reef calculator confusing.

As an example, if I want to bring my dKH from 8 to 9 I could use the calculator and get the number of ML's necessary to make the change. Now it's in this format "5.7 grams, approx 1.2 tsp or 0.2 oz" Grams is in dry weight and the tsp or oz in liquid. Why can't you include ML's too like before?

 

[cthedaytrader]

In this hobby I don't like change if what I'm doing is working. Keep it simple and stable is my motto.

I can appreciate BRS's desire to carry a higher quality product but does that mean the current product has to go away too? I also found your changes to the reef calculator confusing.

As an example, if I want to bring my dKH from 8 to 9 I could use the calculator and get the number of ML's necessary to make the change. Now it's in this format "5.7 grams, approx 1.2 tsp or 0.2 oz" Grams is in dry weight and the tsp or oz in liquid. Why can't you include ML's too like before?

They have both on the calculator one for dry soda Ash and one for liquid soda ash, so you can get it in ml

 

[Scorpius]

If the soda ash mixes easier and everything across the board is more "pure" it's all good.